132: Why Debt Hits Harder After 35 (And What To Do About It)

Why Debt Feels Heavier Now

Jessica 0:00

Debt in your 20s feels like a temporary inconvenience, something that you can tackle later. But debt in your late 30s and early 40s feels like a threat to your entire financial situation. In today's episode, we are breaking down why debt feels heavier in your mid-30s and 40s and what you can actually do about it. We hope you'll stay tuned.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Sugar Daddy Podcast, yo. Learn how to make them pockets grow. Financial freedoms where we grow. Smart investments, money flow.

Jessica 0:32

Welcome back to the Sugar Daddy Podcast, where we help you build a clear financial plan so you can feel confident and in control of your money. To the OGs, welcome back. And if you are new here, we are Jess and Brandon. We are the Norwoods. We are happily married. And we're glad to have you. So hopefully you'll stick in. Stick in. Stay tuned. Stay stick with us. Oh, I don't know. Uh, for this episode, I promise I'll get it together. And uh, we release episodes every Wednesday, and we uh just love talking about money. We nerd out about it. So that is what this podcast is for to help you normalize the conversation and to level up so that you can live your very best life. Babe, what are we talking about today?

Brandon 1:17

Well, today we are talking about debt. And more D word.

Jessica 1:23

The other D word.

Brandon 1:25

And more specifically, you know, because we are elder millennials ourselves, and why debt feels heavier now than it did when we were in our 20s.

Jessica 1:34

I'm sorry. I didn't hear anything you just said because we've been talking a lot about the words in our family. Like, so I was just thinking like the D word, because we just had this like very big family meeting with our kids about the words that they should not be saying. Um and it just made me laugh because debt is a D word.

Brandon 1:59

And for many people I was like, why are you laughing so much?

Why Your 20s Debt Felt Temporary

Jessica 2:01

But and for many people, it really is right the D word. But our kids are now like when they're listening to music or they hear things, they're like, was that the D word? Was that the S word? Was that the the B word? Was that the, you know? And so they're like very into all of that right now. So when you s when I said it's the D word, I was like, oh gosh, here we go. Flashback. Sorry. Derailing, another D word. Um, okay, why does debt feel heavier? That's what we're talking about. Because I think in our 20s, most of us have had some sort of a debt experience.

Brandon 2:35

Yes.

Jessica 2:35

Um, you know, whether it's you get your first credit card, you don't understand how the compound interest on the negative side works, right? Because compound interest on the investing side is typically something favorable that we talk about. But on the negative side, your interest can also compound with your debt. And that happens on a daily basis, which is why when you're making the minimum payment, it feels like, oh my gosh, I'm stuck, I'm never gonna get out of this. Um, but I think the big thing is that like we just think we have time.

Brandon 3:06

100%. Right. Like you're young and you think you have time because also, like, you know, the like you said, the credit card debt, but then you have like the student loan debt, but you're like, I'm just now figure it out. I'm just now quote unquote becoming adult. Yeah. And I have all this time on my hands. You know, I'm I'm early in my career, my income's gonna go, you know, higher. It's gonna skyrocket. We always have these like, you know, grand ideas of like how much money we're gonna make as we get older, and that making more money is going to fix the problem by itself. Right. So that's what we're thinking about. We have time in our hands.

Jessica 3:34

Yeah, for sure. Money will fix the problem. Making more will fix the problem.

Brandon 3:38

You have less obligations, you know. You're just worrying about yourself and just getting to the next day. You know, you don't have a family, you don't have a mortgage or anything that any of those things that you'd really worry about.

Jessica 3:47

Yeah, you really are just like going through life worrying about yourself. And then like life comes at you fast.

Brandon 3:55

Yeah. And like I said, life comes at you fast in your 30s and 40s, it feels a lot heavier. But the idea here is that we are going to have that conversation about, you know, addressing the emotional aspect of why it feels heavier. But then we also do want to see, you know, give you some action items on what you can actually do about that.

Jessica 4:09

Well, and I think even, you know, because our audience is typically between 35 and 44. I'm thinking about we are millennials, we're elder millennials, right? But then, like, there's my brother who's six years younger than me, but he's technically still a millennial, but he had the benefit of things like he got to be on our parents' insurance until the age of 26. Whereas I got booted, like it felt like the day I graduated, the insurance was like, all right, girl, you on your own. So even things like that, where it's like you hit the real world more quickly than people in a younger age bracket.

Brandon 4:45

I would also like to point out a couple of differences, especially with like you and your brother, as far as an age standpoint. Um, one, he has the advantage of having an older sister to help him out. You know, six years is a decent amount of time where you could provide something, say, hey, these are the mistakes that I made. And here's how you can avoid that. So you can also help us on a guidance where like you're older and you've had you have the experience, but you're not his, you're not his mom. You're not you're not your parents talking to him.

Jessica 5:10

Well, I mean, any eldest sister knows that you pretty much operate like a parent.

Brandon 5:15

Yeah. So you have that. But then also even just that age difference there, internet access information.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Yeah.

Brandon 5:21

You know, like think about like, you know, when we were hitting college, as far as what the internet looked like and the amount of information that was provided to, you know, individuals as compared to six years later, what that looked like. It was a huge difference. Yeah. Between like 2001 when I was hitting, you know, when I started college in 2001, to 2007, 2008. That's a big difference in regards to access to information.

Jessica 5:44

Well, and we just got off of a call with him for a project we're working on, and he was talking about how he got his first email address when he was 12. Yeah. Which, like, okay, 12 at his age versus 12 at our age, like we got our first emails when I was in college.

Brandon 5:59

In college.

Jessica 6:00

It was an EDU email address, right? So even those things 100% make a difference. So yes, we are we are all millennials, but like, we're different. Yes. We're different. Okay. So, and if you're an elder millennial like us, you know what that means. So, where do you want to start, babe?

Brandon 6:19

Well, like, start off first, you know, as far as like when you're in your 20s, how that how debt feels to you. Because really, when you're starting out in your 20s, debt feels temporary.

Jessica 6:27

And manageable.

Brandon 6:27

Yes, because manageable. Because in all honesty, like, you know, like that said, the main debt that people are having at that time are student loan debt, which you already have in your mind. Like, that's a long debt, that's kind of debt that's gonna take me a while to pay off to begin with. So you're really not even thinking about it, you know. Yeah. Most people aren't thinking about it. Now, I've definitely met some people where like it's further mind, but most people are like, I have time on my hands, you know, I don't have this have to worry about that as much. I have so much life ahead of me to live.

Jessica 6:51

Well, I think too, even if you're like, I definitely got into some credit card debt uh when I was in college, and you just don't realize how quickly things add up. And you're like, oh, I'll pay that off next month, I'll pay that off next month. And then you say that, but you keep swiping, and your little bitty money that you're making, you know, working at the gap, uh, is not gonna cover that bill. And so it catches up with you really quickly. But even then, you're like, uh, I'll get it next month, I'll get it next month. And it just starts snowballing.

Brandon 7:27

Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing there is also like you have this idea of how much you're gonna make more money in the future, and making more money is gonna solve this problem. So it's not even a big deal now. I'm going to make more money. And having more money, having a higher income is going to solve this problem. So, you know, say you're, you know, a 25-year-old,$35,000 of, you know, student loan debt, maybe four or five thousand dollars worth of credit card debt, you know, like I have time on my hands. I'm gonna be able to manage this. This is very manageable because I have time on my hands, and I'm also gonna be making more money. This is the least amount of money that I'm ever gonna be making in my life.

Jessica 8:00

Right.

Brandon 8:01

I can handle this.

Jessica 8:02

And again, I have tons of time. I have tons of time.

Brandon 8:06

And like I said, like we said, no obligations except basically to yourself for most people.

Jessica 8:10

Yeah. Well, and I think too, from that perspective, you think you have time. I look back at pictures, you know, of my parents when they were in their 40s, and I remember vividly as a teenager being like, oh my gosh, they're ancient. And now we are those ancient, ancient people. And I'm like, whoa, we got here really fast. Like, real like we're we're about to come up on, well, you have already passed 20 years of college.

Brandon 8:40

I like you know, you're I'm 43 now.

Jessica 8:43

Yeah. So like thinking about gr college graduation and now being 20 years post-college graduation, isn't that like insane?

Brandon 8:54

Way to point out how old I am, make me feel old.

Jessica 8:56

I mean, but I'm just saying, like, it just it it happens so quickly.

Brandon 9:00

It does happen very fast.

Jessica 9:01

It happens so fast. And so you think you have this time, but you really don't. And then one thing that we always talk about on the podcast is it's not the amount of money that you make.

Brandon 9:12

No, it's the habits.

Jessica 9:13

It's the habits. So if you have, you know, poor or reckless habits, just because you make more money doesn't mean that your habit is automatically gonna change. It probably means that those habits are going to be exacerbated.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah.

Jessica 9:27

Exacerbated. Wow, I didn't exacerbated it. And like you're gonna spend more, you're gonna have more debt, you're gonna have lifestyle creep, you're gonna X, Y, Z. So building the habits in your 20s is really what's going to help you build your wealth in your 30s, 40s, and beyond. But you don't think about that.

Brandon 9:43

Yeah, because like debt in your, you know, your 20s, you're really, you're really not even thinking about the amount per se. Right. Because you're more or less focused on like the timeline that's attached to it, and you're focused on the upward curve of your income. Yeah. So you're not even really thinking about it the same way that, you know, when you move into your 30s and 40s, that time thing is the bigger factor now.

Jessica 10:02

Well, it's like when you're in your 20s, it's a future problem. I'll worry about it later. And then you wake up and you're in your 30s and you're in your 40s, and you're like, oh, I need to worry about this like right now.

Brandon 10:13

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 10:14

Yes.

Brandon 10:14

You know, because it creates it happens fast.

Jessica 10:17

Yeah. Well, and then that's also the time that you might be getting married, you might be purchasing a home, you might start having kids, you know, your dog is expensive, da da da da, like all those things. And then it's like, wait, the money, even if your income has increased, which is obviously what we're hoping year over year, but your expenses are exponentially increasing as well.

Brandon 10:40

Yeah. So basically, as you move out of your 20s, you're getting to your 30s, maybe you're your mid-30s, you know, now the debt that you have, it actually starts to compete with your real life. Right. As far as, like you said, those additional responsibilities that you have. You may be married now and you have children. So you're having to deal with children. Aging parents. Aging parents, you know, mortgage. And then even just like now you're you have more pressures from your career.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Right.

Brandon 11:04

Because like, you know, in your 20s, you have a lot of like, you know, bright eye dreams of what you could be. 35, some of the realities more start to set in. And then also you're like, I have less time less time on my hands to manage all these things, and I have to optimize each individual area.

Jessica 11:20

Absolutely. Yeah, it becomes really stressful. And, you know, we've talked about being in the sandwich generation before, but it's funny because we have friends with literal newborns. And then we also have friends who have 22-year-olds. Yes. So it is, I mean, we are as this millennial, elder millennial age group, we are really spanning the bracket of like what who is in our house, right? Like we have some friends who have, you know, they're halfway empty nesters, but they still have a middle schooler, but they have a kid in college. We have some that, you know, have five and six-year-olds like we do, but also have a newborn. I mean, we have like it is wild. And then we have friends who have parents living with them, you know, whose parents are struggling to, you know, get to or start their retirement. I mean, it's it's so much. And that oftentimes is financial strain and pressure that like absolutely is not on the radar when you're in your 20s.

Brandon 12:20

No, not at all. And the thing is, like, when you're in your 20s, you're kind of thinking of like, you know, your debt as an individual silo. Like it's his own silo over here. It's way over here. This individual silo. Yeah. And as you transition into your 30s, like that's no longer the case. Like it is now filtered over into every other aspect of your life because any amount that you're putting towards paying off debt is now actively taking away from all these other obligations and dreams that you're trying to achieve.

Jessica 12:47

Yeah. And that's where the stress sets in.

Brandon 12:50

Yes.

Jessica 12:50

Because now you're you had this one little debt bucket, but now that bucket is like kind of stacked on top of all the other buckets, and it's all about to tip over or spill out. And you're just like, you know, one of my friends always says, like, she feels like she's robbing Peter to pay Paul, and you're just like taking money from like these different pockets and areas to try to cover this expense, to try to cover that expense. And then that's where it just feels unmanageable. Or it can start to feel unmanageable.

Brandon 13:23

Because like now that you're, you know, you're moving, like the example is like, you know, say you're like now in your late 30s, you're 38 years old. You still have your mortgage. Now maybe you have more than one kid. You have you know you have two kids, two kids in daycare. We remember that at one point in time we were paying over three thousand dollars a month.

Jessica 13:39

Double our mortgage.

Brandon 13:40

And just just to have two kids in daycare. Crazy. Uh hard payments, like you said, your parents. And the thing is, like, you're kind of shifting from like in your 20s where you're like, oh, can I pay this off someday? Yeah. To now like, you start to think that you're kind of behind. You're like, oh, I have all this debt. Am I behind?

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Right.

Brandon 13:56

Like, am I going to be able to do the things that I want to do? Or is this debt going to be what, you know, is quote unquote the end of me?

Jessica 14:02

Yeah. Well, and I think too, you start to think about, I know for my core circle of friends, you know, I think we all started out wanting to be these like corporate career women and like, you know, the breadwinners and the high earners and all the things. And now it's like, oh, ooh, we're tired, our backs hurt, our knees, our knees are making sounds going up and down the stairs. Like, I'm ready for the soft life. Like, I'm ready for the lottery win. Like, leave me alone. That's what I'm ready for. And I did not think, again, in my 20s, that at 40 something I would be like, no, tap me out. I'm done. Like, I'm I'm over it.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah.

Jessica 14:43

So now we're really starting to think, okay, what do I need to really be over it? Like, what do I actually need numbers-wise? Exactly. Because I don't want to work until 65. I definitely don't want to work past 65. I'm like, I keep saying this. I'm like, 50 is my cutoff.

Brandon 15:00

Yeah. And kind of like you were saying about like, you know, um Robin, Robin Peter to PayPal. Like, the idea now is that, like, you know, before you had like, oh, I have like, you know, in my mid-20s, I have like 40 years to fix this problem. Right. Whereas now we've kind of shifted from fixing the problem to, hey, we are we only have like 20 years to build wealth now. So it's not even this like you're just so focused on debt. You're focused on so many other aspects of your financial life that you want to improve.

Jessica 15:26

Well, it's been 20 years is like, oh my gosh, I want to work another 20 years. No.

Brandon 15:30

But it also seems it's also an opportunity. You're also looking at like the opportunity uh cost in regards to every dollar that now I'm in, you know, in my late 30s, early 40s putting towards debt is a dollar that I'm not putting towards investing and working for me in that way.

Stop Making Debt Your Identity

Jessica 15:44

Well, and I know you're big on, you know, people are like, do I pay off my debt first? Do I invest first? And you're like, yes, you should be doing both. Right. Um, so how do we, like, now that we're not in our 20s, we're not in our 30s, and we're actively like, where is retirement? I need her. What do we do?

Brandon 16:05

Before we even get to that part, okay. I do want to say that you have to have a shift identity-wise. Okay. From a psychological and behavioral standpoint of how you view yourself. Because one of the biggest things I think is that people view debt as a complete failure to but just view it as a failure who they are. Like they take it on as this debt is like their own personality. Moral. And it's like, this is not, that's not what that is. You know, we've all, whether how like depending, even no matter how you got into debt, acknowledge whatever it was because sometimes, you know, I've seen people that have a lot of student loan debt, and they take that on as a negative. I'm like, you had no other option to get to college. Like you're a doctor now. Your parents didn't have the money to put you through school and everything like that. This was a means to an end. Yeah. So you have to have that mentality shift from not making it part of your identity and say, it is what it is. What am I going to do to get out of there?

Jessica 16:54

Which is crazy because you have a lot of clients that are different kinds of doctors. And for them to be like, oh, I'm a bad person because I have this debt, when you're like literally improving, saving lives, you know, I mean, that's just wild to me.

Brandon 17:10

That's also because there's such a negative stigma that, you know, society has placed on debt or quote unquote us regular people. Well, we as we know like the wealthy, they use debt strategically.

Jessica 17:19

Well, then it's leverage. Yeah. It's not debt, right?

Brandon 17:22

But the idea here is that whether it was like, you know, I mean, there is something to be said in regards to um taking an examine how you got into debt. Because is it student loan debt or is it credit card debt? Because it's two different things. Because if it's credit card debt, you do have to probably maybe um address if you just have a have had a habit of overspending, you have to address that habit. You know, you have to change the habit if you were consistently spending more than you have coming in.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Yeah.

Brandon 17:47

All right. But ultimately at the end, you do have to determine, hey, like, you know, like you were saying, are you going to invest? Are you going to pay off debt? And it's like, we got to do some aspects of both.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Right.

Invest While Paying Down Debt

Brandon 17:58

You know? Yeah. So if we're just going to make, you know, um, obviously this is focused on the debt aspect, but just like a brief overview is like from an investing standpoint, if you are um a W-2 employee and you have a retirement plan through your employer that provides some sort of match.

Jessica 18:13

Like a 401k or a 403B.

Brandon 18:16

Or like if your employer is providing like a three or four percent match, I do try to encourage people, if it makes sense within their budget, to at least take advantage of the match. Right. Reason means that that's that's free money. So that's a hundred percent return. So for example, if I'm contributing three percent, let's say if I'm contributing three percent to my um to my um 401k plan, I make$100,000. That's$3,000. That means$3,000 additionally that my employer is gonna put in, that's a hundred percent return of your money right there.

Jessica 18:42

That makes a bit.

Brandon 18:43

You already know. Um you put in$3,000, your employer's gonna put in$3,000, that is 100% return of your money. You know that. So I encourage you to bare minimum do that. And then after that, any excess money that we have, yes, depending on what type of debt you have, then we're gonna start allocating that excess funds to paying off that debt because there's a difference between, like, for example, student loan debt, which has a lower interest rate, compared to credit card debt, which has a significantly higher uh interest rate. So you got to look at what kind of debt you have and what is the interest rate attached to it.

Jessica 19:10

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and you see a lot of things too now where people are talking openly about their debt online and people are saying things like, Man, I worked so hard to tackle my student loan debt that was at a 3% interest rate when really what I should have been doing is just paying the minimum and investing, because man, I missed out on, you know, thousands of dollars of growth over the years. Strategy.

Brandon 19:35

It's strategy, but then also I'm not gonna just simply discount how someone feels because like I said before, so for some people, yeah, the weight that they feel of debt is like detrimental to their health. They stress too much about it. And if you're that type of person, then me sitting here saying, hey, you know, instead of paying off your student loan debt sooner, put money over here where you know you're netting the difference in the interest rates, da da da this and this and that, that's probably not going to be what you need as an individual to feel better. Because also part of the financial planning aspect is obviously seeing the numbers improve, but it's overall you feeling better. So even if the numbers are improving, but you as a person, as you're stressed in the way that you feel, is not improving, is it am I really helping you?

Jessica 20:18

Right. Well, it's like you, you know, you have clients who are like, no, I want to be mortgage free, even though the numbers don't make it make sense. But emotionally, that's what they need to feel secure. They need to have a paid-off home.

Brandon 20:31

So it's also like examining who you are as a person and what you need. But overall, the thing is the overall, the biggest um part I want you to focus on is I want you to switch from like the idea of why am I still in debt to what am I going to do to get out of debt.

Jessica 20:47

Okay.

Brandon 20:47

So be productions, don't dwell, don't dwell on the past problems. Yeah. But let's address it, tear the band-aid off, and put a plan in place to pay off the debt. The biggest thing I can't stress more is putting a plan in place. If you have multiple, you know, debts in multiple areas that you're trying to pay off, do not randomly just put money here, there, with no actual strategic plan as far as like how you should actually tackle these debts in an in an orderly manner.

Build A Real Payoff Plan

Jessica 21:15

Right. Well, and I know, I mean, again, even talking to my friends, right? They'll they'll say, Oh, my husband paid off this random card, you know, with this bonus, but really we should have done this. And it's like, if you don't have a plan, you're literally just throwing money into random buckets. And then you're gonna feel frustrated when nothing looks like it's moving because you didn't have a plan in place or strategy of what are you going to pay down? Right. So we've talked about the snowball method or the avalanche, you know, picking one, what's gonna make you feel better? Do you wanna pay off maybe the smallest balances first because you need those wins to keep you motivated and to keep going? You know, does taking out a personal loan and consolidating debt make sense? But are you going to change your habits or are you going to consolidate the loan and then just keep swiping? I mean, there's so many different ways to tackle debt, but really having an intentional plan behind it is the only thing that's going to move the needle.

Brandon 22:14

Yeah. And if you're, you know, you've been listening thus far to this episode and you're like, this is really hitting home. The first step I want you to take is get clarity on those actual numbers. I don't want to go off of I feel like this, my stress level is because of this. No, get clarity on what the actual numbers are. And the only way you're going to get that clarity is by diving deep into your debts, writing them down as far as like the amounts you have and also the interest rates that are attached to them.

Jessica 22:41

One of Brandon's biggest pet peeves is when people say, I feel like when you can know.

Brandon 22:48

Yes.

Jessica 22:49

So no, no feelings. We need facts.

Brandon 22:51

If there's a definitive answer, I don't want to hear I think.

Jessica 22:54

Or I think. Yeah, yeah.

Brandon 22:56

Because you can have feelings around things, but like if there's a definitive, if I'm asking you a question that has one answer, you're like, I think, nope. We're not I thinking, we are getting the actual answer. I know that this is the answer. And like I said, the only way that you're gonna, the first step for all of this is write down all the deaths you have and the interest rates attached with them.

Jessica 23:17

Yeah.

Brandon 23:17

Because that's gonna be the starting point of you getting clarity. Because I think also, too, know your numbers. A lot of people don't know their numbers. They have an idea, but like maybe when you actually write it down, maybe the numbers are better, maybe the numbers are worse. But the at the end of the day, you still have the clarity there.

Jessica 23:31

Yeah. You can't manage what you don't measure. Yeah.

Brandon 23:34

So that's the first action step. That's the first thing that we would want you to do. If you're listening to this podcast all the way through and you want to, you know, the first step that we take in the next, you know, week or so after listening to this, listening to this episode, write down all your debts and the interest rates attached with them. Now, once you have that information there, then we can look off, look at the different payoff strategies in regards to tackling that debt. Whether it's, you know, the avalanche method, the snowball method, whatever that may be, you can determine after that. But take that first step and have clarity because you'd be surprised at like just simply having clarity, like, you know, how much stress, you know, might be relieved, because you'd be surprised that like the unknown can actually cause a lot of stress. So even if the number is possibly higher than what you thought it would be, the fact that you now know, you've kind of gotten rid of some of that issue of like, you know, that that worries a lot of people.

Jessica 24:25

That's that actually reminds me of like when you are in your 20s and you're like, oh, I need to check my bank account, but I don't want to check my bank account because I don't know what's in it right now. You know? So unless you were really good with your, you know, your ledger, your checkbook uh register.

Brandon 24:42

Showing our age.

unknown 24:43

Yeah.

Brandon 24:44

You can still look online at the age we were at. Like you can look online.

Jessica 24:47

I would just get the like, if I was getting money out, I would get the slip. Now I don't get the slip anymore because now I'm good. But like back then it's like, oh, what's it gonna say? You leave your little ticket, you know? Oh, yeah. So clarity. And we use Monarch Money. We've been talking about it um all year. We'll link to our uh to our referral code so you can get 50% off from for Monarch. But if you like a nice interface, you want to be able to pull something up quickly. Um, I think especially if you're partnered and you, you know, you have a partner, you have a spouse, or you're sharing income and household expenses in any way, I think it's really nice to be able to see the different buckets like my bucket, your bucket, our bucket, debts, incomes, etc., all in one space. You can, you know, it's just a quick, easy way to get that information. Now, what it won't tell you is what the interest rate is on those certain credit cards. And you might want to prioritize, you know, that Coles card that probably has a 32% interest rate over maybe, you know.

Brandon 25:50

You always be going hard at Kohl's. We are definitely I mean, granted, we don't shop there, but we were definitely not going to get a sponsorship from them after.

The Upside Of Getting Older

Jessica 25:56

Sorry, Coles. People love Coles. I mean, I'm just saying the store credit cards, like they I mean, holy gouging, you know.

Brandon 26:04

So I do want to say one thing, like, you know, we've been talking about obviously as you get older, the negative part of the debt is that you have less time on your side in regards to paying it off.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah.

Brandon 26:15

However, there are some positives that you can lean into, quote unquote being older when it comes to tackling this debt. Like what one, hopefully you have a higher income, actually. Like one part of that, hopefully that has come through come true that you've worked hard, you have a higher income. And um, I would also say hopefully you've learned some lessons along the way. So you've improved your financial literacy a little bit more. Um, maybe you've also started to rein in some of those budgeting habits, so you have better budgeting habits. And then also I think you have you have more focus and also more willpower to want to do this, maybe now. Right. Because you know times are you can't just keep kicking the you know that you can't keep kicking the can down the road and deal with it later. So now you have a better willpower to go ahead and put a plan in place and complete that plan.

Jessica 26:58

Because you know later is gonna come really quickly. Yeah, I agree. I think too, there's there's a shift that happens when you turn 40 where you just your level of caring what other people think. Yeah. And it's like you just don't care anymore.

Brandon 27:20

So it's like you're not trying to spend money per se to impress people that you don't even like.

Jessica 27:25

Yeah. Yeah. This like I think the, you know, keeping up with the Joneses and having the latest and greatest and all the things, you know, that's that's part of being in your 20s, I think, for most people, if we're honest, right? It's like, yeah, you want nice things, you want to feel like you've made it or whatever, or also you want people to think that you paid more for things.

Brandon 27:43

Like now, like I'm my whole thing is like, what's the nicest thing I can get and pay the least amount of money and tell people about it?

Jessica 27:49

Right. Yes. Well, women, we've been doing that for forever because we like it.

Brandon 27:52

I'm just saying, like, I feel like sometimes with people with homes, like, oh, I paid this amount for my house. I'm like, my I got a similar house for half the price. That's what I'm going for.

Jessica 28:01

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think we as women are always like, oh, I like your dress. And it's like, thanks, girl, I got it from Ross for$11.99.

Brandon 28:07

And it's like, yeah, I would say that's not really like I would say that's not a guy thing. I've always had to be the type of person where like you're so frugal. So I'm like, no, I got these for like dirt cheap.

Jessica 28:15

Yes. Um yeah, I think that helps because then we talk a lot about value-based spending on the podcast. And it's like when you do spend money, it's intentional and it's going to add value to your life, whatever that means, right? Whether it's like a meal delivery service or getting your clothes, you know, washed and dry cleaned with a pickup service, or it just like whatever that is for you. You are hopefully spending money on things that are improving your life, add value to your life, bring you a lot of joy, and are not just like that reckless spending at 3 a.m. because you saw some sort of infomercial or scrolled on TikTok, you know?

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Yeah.

Jessica 28:58

So that should help rein in your spending completely. Yeah. What else do we want to leave our listeners with today?

Brandon 29:07

I mean, in all honesty, I think we've kind of already put it out there. The biggest thing that we always want people to take away is an action item for you to complete. So you know, so don't just get your debts. Yeah. So we don't want you to just consume our episodes and not actually take action because that's not doing you any good. So today's action item, I'm only going to give you one. If you have multiple debts, write them down, the amounts that they are and the interest rates that are associated with them. Bare minimum, do that.

Jessica 29:34

Yeah, so that you understand so that you actually have the clarity.

Brandon 29:38

The first step is getting that clarity.

Jessica 29:40

Yeah, absolutely. And we actually we have a free six-month money makeover guide. We have also done an episode on that in the past. So we will link those in the show notes as well. And it'll help walk you through, you know, deciding on the avalanche method versus the snowball method. And once you are clear on understanding your debts, what do you do from there? Like, what do you do next? So we'll link those in the show notes. And hopefully this is, you know, I think we just want to normalize that most people feel this way, right? Like we've never claimed to be debt-free. We are not debt-free. Um, we do not plan on paying off of our our mortgage. We're currently leasing two cars, like, you know, so this is not ever going to be a show where we are trying to portray ourselves as this like perfect couple that has it all together. Um, but of course, we know that in this day and age, everything's so expensive. The economy is only getting crazier, prices are only going up. And so we have to be really intentional about keeping the money that we're earning, making sure that we're paying down debt, um, and that we are intentional about how and when and why we are spending so that hopefully we don't have to work forever because that is not the goal here.

Brandon 30:57

Yeah, because the big thing with us is that obviously there are certain rule of thumbs that you're gonna get from older people within this space. However, life's different now. It is so different. Things are different for us as far as millennials as compared to they were our for our parents when they were our age. So we do want to make sure that we are addressing those differences and finding a way to navigate them in the positive way.

Jessica 31:18

Absolutely. So if this was a helpful episode, we hope you'll share it with a friend or family member and reach out anytime if you have any questions. If you need somebody to help hold your hand and guide you, don't forget Brandon is a licensed financial advisor, and this is what he does with his clients all day, every day. So reach out, get some help. You don't have to do this alone, and we will talk to you next week. Don't forget, Benjamin Franklin said, an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid. Until next time.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Sugar Daddy Podcast, yo. Learn how to make the pockets grow. Find news of freedom, swear we go. Smart investments, money flow.

Jessica 32:03

Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review, and share this episode with your friends, family, and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the Sugar Daddy Podcast. You can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our past the sugar segments at thesugardaddypodcast at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail to our Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

Our content is intended to be used and must be used by information to purpose public. It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based upon your own personal circumstances. We should take independent money to advise from a license professional and connection with or independent research and verify any information you find in our podcast and which rely upon whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.