134: Red Flags Your Job Is At Risk (And What To Do Now)

The Layoff No One Sees Coming

Jessica 0:00

You're not on a pip, your performance reviews are great, and you think you're safe. And then Monday morning, your manager puts a meeting on your calendar, and by 9:30, your role no longer exists. It's happening to thousands of people right now. And the scariest part is most of them didn't see it coming. Today we're talking about the signs you might be dismissing, what to do before the layoff hits, and exactly how to handle it if it does. Because in 2026, no one is untouchable. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Sugar Daddy Podcast, yo. Learn how to make them pockets grow. Finance of freedoms where we go. Smart investments, money flow.

Jessica 0:43

Welcome everybody to the Sugar Daddy Podcast, where we help you build a clear financial plan so you can feel confident and in control of your money. Babe, what are we talking about today?

Brandon 0:57

Today we are talking about layoffs.

Jessica 1:03

And I was laid off again.

Brandon 1:06

Yeah, unfortunately, it has happened again. And this is the second time within like two years.

Jessica 1:14

Yeah. 2024, and then now 2026. I was only with my latest company for a year and three months. And, you know, we talk obviously, we talk about money every single week on the podcast. But we also have talked about me being the breadwinner, how volatile tech is, the um like the bur the burden, the blessing and the burden of being the breadwinner, regardless if you're the female breadwinner or the male breadwinner, right? And like having to navigate that. Because if you've been here for a while, you've been a listener since the beginning, you know that I've also carry our family's insurance. Um, obviously, being the breadwinner also means that I cover most of the bills. We obviously don't want to tap into our savings. Um, and now I'm back in in the job market, in the in the on the hunt, you know, and so it's a lot and it's not fun. Um, and if you spend any time on LinkedIn or talking to your friends, because we also have several friends who've been laid off.

Brandon 2:24

Social media in general.

Jessica 2:25

Or social media in general, you know that this is not an isolated event and it is not something that is like coming out of the blue. And so today we're talking about the red flags to pay attention to so that you're not completely caught off guard. Because I will say the first time when I was laid off from my Fortune 100 company, I had been there going on four years. My performance reviews were excellent. I was getting big bonuses, I was getting stock every year. Like this was not performance-based.

Brandon 2:57

And the thing is, most layoffs are not performance-based. Right, exactly. In the scenario of this performance-based, you're fired.

Jessica 3:03

Yeah, exactly. So, like at this stage, they are business decisions. I mean, my Fortune 100 company that I was with, I mean, I think that they, the packages they were paying out was in the hundreds of millions of dollars. So you're looking at this and you're thinking, okay, there's they're literally prepared to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to lay off six or seven thousand people, give them a package for six months, pay their health insurance for six months, let them vest their stocks early, et cetera, et cetera. And it's still a better business decision than keeping you. So that's kind of crazy. Like when you think of it like that. Like we have a really good friend. She worked her way up from barista at Starbucks all the way to district manager, was with the company for like 15 years, and her role was eliminated. And, you know, some people see it coming and other people don't. I knew the writing was on the wall for this last company. I went from like a 75,000, 80,000 employee company down to I was like employee number 28 or 29, which I joked. I remember vividly joking in the interview process that I have more first cousins than this company had employees.

Brandon 4:19

So I would also say that in some aspects, with your the company you're with that was a Fortune 100 company, you saw some of that coming because we had had a conversation about I you're like, I'm feeling like I'm feeling a shift.

Why Great Employees Still Get Cut

Jessica 4:31

Yes. And we'll talk about that because I do have it on my red flags list as we were planning for this episode. So there are definitely signs, right? Like if you're paying attention and you need to stay alert, right? Like if you are not working for yourself and you are working for somebody else, just know that you're always at risk. And even if you're working for yourself, like there is risk in that, right? Yeah. Um, but unless you're you're planning on letting yourself go, you know. Um, so today we want to talk about like the red flags to look for so that hopefully it doesn't come as a complete shock. And if I'm completely real with myself, I didn't see my Fortune 101 coming in 2024, but looking back, it wasn't that there were no signs. And there were things that you and I talked about where now looking back, I'm like, yeah, that was a sign. That was a red flag, you know? So let's get into it because this is affecting thousands of people. I mean, Oracle just did a literal 30,000 employee layoff. I mean, that is, it was 18% of their workforce. That is mind-blowing. 30,000 people got an email that they no longer had a job. That is insane. And now, you know, on top of all the other companies, Meta and X and basic companies doing layoffs. Now I'm competing with another 30,000 qualified people. Not saying that out of all of them, you know, some people weren't on a pip, some people weren't getting ready to retire, et cetera. But like the market is flooded. Yeah. It's crazy out there. So let's get into it because, you know, I I have a lot of thoughts, I have a lot of feelings, I've been personally affected. I do plan on staying in the tech space. Um but another thing that I told Brandon, which is obviously going to be part of this episode, is I want a bigger buffer. Like I want more financial safety in our savings account because it's not going to be a matter of if it happens, it's going to be a matter of when it happens. And then there's, let me go back too, because now that I'm just like thinking about all the stories of things that are happening within our circle of friends. We have a close friend who was, you know, given a promotion. You're like, oh, promotion, I'm gonna get a raise, da-da-da-da-da. Given a promotion, the manager was like, I need you to start leading this team. He now has eight direct reports. They were kind of talking about a title change. Uh, he was like, Yeah, it's coming, it's coming, it'll come with your raise. But I need you to basically work in this new capacity for probably about 90 days before anything will happen. Well, he's been essentially working two jobs now as a people manager and doing his his job. So he's working around the clock, working nights, working weekends just to get it all done. And do you know how they did this man? They gave him a 1.5, I can't barely say it, y'all. A 1.5% raise. And this man is managing eight eight adult humans. And they gave him a 1.5% raise and basically told him. That's not even an inflation raise to be grateful and that there was nothing they could do. And you know what's even more infuriating about those situations is that then you look at what the C-suite is making, especially if you're at a public company, like you can look up these numbers. Like this is this is public information. And then you see that they are making millions and billions and bajillions of dollars and you're supposed to be happy with literal crumbs. It is infuriating out there. It is so difficult. And this is why I'm just gonna start selling my feet on the internet.

Brandon 8:19

We've been saying this, but it's yet to happen.

Jessica 8:21

I'm gonna, even if it's just as an experiment for the podcast, I'm gonna do it because right now I have the time. So if you see me putting my feet into a bowl of spaghetti, just keep it moving and don't ask any questions because I mean it's crazy out here. You're managing eight whole new people and doing another job of being a people manager and doing your job. And now you're getting a 1.5% raise when the cost of everything has gone up by 300%.

Brandon 8:52

Yeah, I'm gonna ring you back into the episode.

Jessica 8:54

Okay. Getting hot, y'all. Getting hot because it's it's all right.

Brandon 8:59

Let's start off with, you know, why why layoffs actually catch people off guard.

Jessica 9:03

Yeah. Okay. Especially when you're doing well at your job and you're crushing it and you're a star employee and everybody loves working with you.

Brandon 9:10

I think that's the first thing is that most people who have never been laid off before don't necessarily see it on their radar because you're doing well at your job. You're thinking, I'm doing well, I'm getting, you know, my performance reviews are great, I'm getting all the bonuses that I qualify for. And you're like, why would they lay me off if I'm doing a great job? And it has nothing to do with your performance whatsoever. No. Um, I'm not just saying this because I'm Jess's husband, but she always gives more than 100%. I know it's not mathematically possible, but she always gives her all. I would say honestly, her 50% effort is better than most 100% effort from other people.

Jessica 9:44

That's so sweet, babe.

Brandon 9:46

And she still has experienced this because it has nothing to do with performance.

Jessica 9:50

Yeah. So if you have been hit with a layoff and you have been getting the raises, the promotions, the bonuses, the stocks, the things, just know it's not you. This is not about you. Do not take this personally. Like you really have to, and it's hard, especially for us type A OCD overachievers, Enneagram threes, you know, like it's hard for us to not take it personally and to not take it as a personal attack, but it is a business decision. It has nothing to do with you. And the sooner you realize that these companies do not care about you, the better off you will be. And that is the truth. That's the truth. So this isn't about you. It's not about your performance, it's not about how good you did something or how poorly you did something. This is a business decision. And if you're paying close attention, a lot of these companies are running these mass layoffs on a cycle. So I know at my my Fortune 100 company, we were doing them twice a year, every year from the year that I joined. Now we were global. So I'm speaking from the US perspective, we were doing them twice a year. Now, in other countries, I'm looking at AMEA. So we're looking at Europe, the Middle East, sometimes Asia. There's a lot more protection in place. And they would maybe start the layoff at the same time as the one in the US, but it would take six to eight months because legally in some of these other countries, you cannot lay off 7,000 people at once. Why? Because it literally changes what is happening in the economy. And they're like, no, we're putting a stop to this. So even if you're working in another country, you could still be laid off. You might have a little bit more of a runway. It might be a slower process. We're going to speak specifically about things happening in the US. But pay attention, especially if you're working for or plan on working for a public company, you can look up what is going on, do a quick search, five, 10 minutes on LinkedIn or on Google, and you will see what layoffs are happening. So mentally prepare and just kind of be on guard for that.

Brandon 11:58

I would also say, you know, especially with a lot of companies now in the environment we're in now, is that a lot of companies are investing in AI. So a lot of people, so for example, a lot of these companies are laying off people so they have more um funds to put towards investing in AI. So keep that in mind as well, because even if you don't necessarily feel your company might not be in your mind so tech focused, it has a tech aspect.

Jessica 12:21

Yes. And I think this is another conversation, but I do think that this whole we're gonna lay off 30,000 people and make the investment in AI, it's gonna come back and bite companies because AI is moving so quickly. And what these large companies are going to be missing is structure and process and governance to properly roll out these AI tools and platforms and actually And you've seen it firsthand.

Brandon 12:45

Yeah, it's not done correctly.

Company-Level Red Flags To Watch

Jessica 12:47

And get data and insights to like properly make decisions. That's a whole nother episode. Um, but just know that is what is happening, right? Like companies are trying to lean out and save money where they can. And employees are the most expensive asset of any company. Period. Hard stop. So let's get into like the red red flags. Like this is the stuff that you need to be paying attention to, you know, especially if you're currently employed to see and understand what's happening in your company. So again, if your company is running layoffs on a cycle, it's happening twice a year, every year, pay attention. Where in the cycle are you? Because it's coming. It might not affect you. And that's something else about these big companies is you almost have like survivor's guilt when you make the cut, but your friends don't make the cut, but you're literally just working every single day waiting for it to like be your turn to get laid off. So it there's there's an emotional aspect to this as well. Like you have great perks, you get the stocks, you do all the things, but there's an emotional aspect to like, when is it gonna be me? Because again, a lot of times it's not performance-based. I think one other thing that people need to pay attention to is what's happening, especially in these public companies where you're having earnings calls, are earnings calls being used to delay decisions. And I'll give you an example. So when I was laid off in 2024, I had actually gotten a new job internally. Do you remember this, babe? I do. I had gotten a new job internally on a new team. Um, I was so excited because this company, it was like one one, one company, many careers was kind of like the internal slogan because it's so big you could pivot and bob and weave and do different things and like not get bored because most of us don't want to be on autopilot forever. And so I had kind of reached that time where I was like, you know, it's time to look for something new. I love my team. I really liked my leader, all of those things. I was in a really good spot, but I just I was craving something new. I wanted to like work with new people, learn from new people, et cetera. So I had started applying internally, got a job, negotiated a 10% raise internally, which if you know, you know, a 10% raise internally as a high earner already, coming it from the outside in, no problem. From coming from inside to inside, you know, I was I was negotiating. And I was so proud. I was happy. I was excited. I was gonna be working for um a new female leader. She was like ex-Google, I think ex-Microsoft, super sharp. Like I was really excited. Long story short, got the job, was about to sign my offer, and then the recruiter called me and she basically was like, hey, they were told they need to wait until after earnings. That is never a good sign. Why are we waiting until after earnings? If you have to wait for a decision to be made until after the earnings call, 90% of the time that thing's dead in the water. Okay. So that is another red flag. Just be prepared. If it has to be done after earnings, we're we're not in a good, good spot. If roles are being consolidated or eliminated without replacement, and this is we're we're seeing this. I just gave you the story of our friend who got eight people. He's now a people leader, he's essentially doing two jobs and was given a 1.5%, I don't even want to call it a raise, an increase, because a raise is like a slap in the I would also say, too, that like in those scenarios, if they don't give you in writing up front, like, hey, you're taking on this new role and they're gonna delay paying you.

Brandon 16:28

Say they're gonna delay a month or so and they don't have it in writing, yeah, 99% of the time, you're not going to get what you're doing.

Jessica 16:36

Well, and I do think he's getting back pay, but what is back pay at 1.5%? That's what I'm saying.

Brandon 16:42

What I'm saying is, like, if you're like if you're being promoted, uh title change, you're gonna have more money coming, and you're expecting, say, like, even just like a you know, five or six percent raise.

Jessica 16:50

Right.

Brandon 16:50

If it's not in writing upon you signing it at that point in time, you're doing free work, you're volunteering. You're not gonna get it. Yeah, I've never seen anyone have that scenario and actually get what they thought they were gonna get.

Jessica 17:01

No, absolutely, you're spot on.

Brandon 17:03

It's up to you, like in those scenarios. Like obviously, when this in the in this environment, you're happy to have a job. So just prepare yourself mentally that you're not gonna get what you thought you were.

Jessica 17:13

Yeah. We have another uh good friend was told if you go get your MBA at this school, we'll pay for it. Never got it in writing, six figures in debt coming out with that MBA from UNC, and to this day has not seen a dime.

Brandon 17:28

I always say, I always say when it comes to anything within the uh corporate world, if it's not in writing, it's not it's not there.

Role-Level Signs Your Work Is Fading

Jessica 17:35

It's it does, it's not real. It's not real. Um, if you're hearing about layoffs in other departments or in global offices, I mean, your little red flag should be going off. And if your leadership is starting to get vague about the future of the team, you know, you're getting more assigned work, but you know that there needs to be headcount, but you're on a hiring freeze, or you're basically doing the job of two people, your little spidey senses should be going off, right? Um, I think that there's some, those were kind of the organizational red flags. I think there's role-specific red red flags. And looking back, I remember I kind of started becoming like the Swiss Army knife of work.

Brandon 18:20

And that's why I say I kind of remember you feeling that something was going on because you were like tingling at my little spidey senses. The original reason that you were hired, it was not what you were being used for. Correct. And everyone else on your team had a very specific role they were doing, and you start to kind of bounce around to everybody else.

Jessica 18:38

Yeah. So if your core project or the reason that you were hired is fizzling out, it's losing internal investment, you're not having as many meetings about it, maybe you're losing funding for that project. If you're starting to become like that Swiss army knife, that generalist where it's like, oh, we'll just pull just into this, we'll pull just into that, where you don't have a home. That is what's happening.

Brandon 19:01

And the thing is, you would you would naturally think that it's that's a good thing, you would think naturally. I can go anywhere. I can do multiple things. Yeah. No, if you're doing multiple things, you're not dedicated to doing one specific thing.

Jessica 19:12

Exactly.

Brandon 19:12

And companies are more focused on having individuals do a specific thing.

Jessica 19:16

Mm-hmm. Exactly. So in your head, you're like, oh, I'm a Swiss Army knife. This is great. Like I can, I'm so good at so many things, and they know that they can utilize me for this project or that project, but you don't have a home. You don't have a project to land on. And that's the problem. Um, you know, if you are starting to maybe have less conversations with your manager, um, you know, if there are roles that are getting closed again after those earning calls, if there's a headcount freeze, I even think, you know, a lot of times if they shut down travel um or internal spending, like we used to do a quarterly team outing. Now we can't do that. We used to travel to see clients. Now we have a virtual mandate, unless it's like a deal over a certain amount of money. Those are red flags. That is a that is something where they're restricting spending, even if you don't know why. They are restricting spending because they they know something that you don't know. So you need to pay attention to that.

Brandon 20:19

Yeah. And the thing is here is, you know, the age that we're we're at, you just can't put your head down and do your work.

Jessica 20:24

No.

Brandon 20:24

You have to pay attention to what's going on in your company so that you understand the health of your company and whether or not you really need to be preparing for the potential of being laid off.

Jessica 20:32

Yeah, absolutely. And again, a lot of this is for public companies. But if you are at a public company and you are not listening to the earnings call or you're not reading the earnings report, what are you doing? Like that is literally the health of your company. You need to take that transcript, put it into Claude and say, what does this mean if you don't understand it? Um, you should be going to those earnings calls and then talking to your manager about it and saying, what does this actually mean? What did you get from this? You should be able to have that kind of conversation with your leadership.

Brandon 21:06

I also think in those scenarios, having that conversation with that leadership shows you're invested in this company. Exactly. You understand what's going on, you want to have a better knowledge of what's going on. Yep. And I think that plays significantly better than the person who just shows up.

Jessica 21:18

Yep. Exactly. Exactly. I think if you're getting like behavioral red flags of things happening on your team, things to look for, you know, you're meeting less with your manager, your manager is maybe not doing as much small talk, um, you're being left out of meetings, maybe some standing meetings that you used to always be a part of are starting to drop off of your calendar. Make sure that you're asking about that and why. If you're getting uh restrictions to systems, documents, tools, like if if your access is being restricted in some way all of a sudden, red flags. Ask questions about it. Why is that happening? Why do I no longer have access to this, this, and this tool? So those are those are. Are some of the big things to look for that I think if you're honest with yourself, if you're going through a layoff, if you pay attention to those things, they don't come out of the blue.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

No.

Stay Ready With Resume And Proof

Jessica 22:11

Right. Um, so before you get that uncomfortable 9 a.m.

Brandon 22:16

Monday morning calendar invite, these would be the things that you should do to prepare just throughout the course of like everyday life.

Jessica 22:23

Right. Stay ready. You guys already know how I feel about this. If this is not your first time listening, keep your resume up to date. We just had a conversation, even though it was via text, with one of our good friends. She got a massive promotion at a huge company. Like these kinds of promotions don't happen, kind of promotion. And she got it. And it was written up. You know, it was one of those big communications that goes out to the whole company. And it basically was all the things that she did that were amazing that got her the promotion. And so, as, you know, after we were done saying, Oh my gosh, congratulations, you earned this, you've worked so hard, all the things. I said, Hey, don't forget to update your resume because literally all of the accolades that the company clearly cares about, because their executive communications team decided to put it into this write-up. That is what somebody else is going to care about, potentially at your next company. I don't care if you take a screenshot of it and plop it into a Google Doc. Get that. That is that is pure gold right there.

Brandon 23:28

Because what ends up happening is that people don't update their res resumes on a regular basis until they need to. Yeah. And the problem there is that you've often forgotten all the amazing things that you've done leading up to that. So, you know, when you're working on big projects, when you have like, you know, great feedback from um a higher up in regards to a project you work on, make sure you captured in that moment. It doesn't have to be like thoroughly thought out, but at least have a running list of that information so that when you go to update your resume, you don't have to wreck rack your brain trying to remember all the stuff that you wanted to put on there. You already have a list started of it.

Jessica 24:02

Absolutely. I would say, you know, we know that life gets busy. Ideally, you're doing this once a quarter or you're doing this after annual reviews. Um, maybe you do a review first half, second half. If you're already talking about what you did, the projects that you led, the successes that you had, that's a perfect time to translate all of that onto an updated resume. Bare minimum, do it first half, second half, and then keep a running brag sheet of things that you helped contribute to. Because again, and this is something that in my last role I struggled with. If you can't have tangible wins of like, I increased this, I brought in this much revenue, I reduced this, I sped up this, right? Like, if you don't have numbers to really tell the story of what it is you're contributing to, you need to find some. You need to find some. And even then, we had another friend just recently that we saw that got laid off in a sales job. And he was like, I brought in$35 million for the company last year. Yeah. And it's and still was laid off. Right. Now, I don't know what$35 million is in comparison to maybe the top salesperson at the company, but$35 million ain't nothing.

Brandon 25:17

Sounds like a good option.

Network Before You Need Help

Jessica 25:18

Sounds like for one person to bring in$35 million in one year and still be laid off, sounds like, okay, what's going on? So again, what did you increase? What did you decrease? What did you speed up? What did you reduce? What did, you know, like think about those really tangible numbers that you can tie back to the business. Um, and make sure that those are on your on your resume. And then also have your running brag sheet. Anytime somebody sends you a message that says, I couldn't have done this without you. Oh my gosh, you helped me get this across the finish line. Oh, the executives absolutely loved this. You crushed it. Take a screenshot, put it in a folder. Those are the things that you're going to want to be able to showcase on your next review, or even when you're interviewing with another company to say, I am valuable. I am integral to this portion of the business. Here's what I'm amazing at. And look at the 20 people who told me so. So keep that information. It is data. Keep it, keep it up to date. Um, network before you need to. Y'all know I'm big on this.

Brandon 26:20

And I this is your superpower. I would say this is just as biggest superpower because for me, networking doesn't come naturally. I think a lot of people can relate to that. Whereas for you, it comes very natural and you're always constantly doing it. And it doesn't even seem like it comes across so natural because it doesn't seem like you're doing it for any gain in a sense. You're like you're genuinely having conversations and genuinely, genuinely wanting to connect with people. Where, you know, in the future, if you need something, they're willing to help you out and you're also willing to help other people out.

Jessica 26:50

Yeah. I, you know, I'm a people person at heart and I love connecting with people and I love, you know, seeing what's going on in their world. And but also that, yes, then comes in handy when I'm like, hey, will you put in a referral for me? Hey, I saw this position at your company. Can you send a note to the hiring manager? Can you send a note to the recruiter? You want to be genuine about it, but you also need to be intentional. So if you're not genuinely or organically making those connections or, you know, putting yourself out there, then you need to plan to go to events, right? I don't care if it's your annual alumni cookout in your hometown. Go to a place where professionals will be, right? You can join your chamber of commerce, you can do your alumni groups, you can go if you have certifications like I got my PMP last year. Now I'm part of the Project Management Institute chapter of the Raleigh Triangle, right?

Brandon 27:45

You can go to a golf event.

Jessica 27:48

Go to a golf event. I don't care if you go to the soup kitchen, go somewhere where you can connect with people and make connections. You can go to meetup groups, you can go to a wine club. It doesn't matter. Go somewhere where you can have a conversation and meet new people.

Brandon 28:01

I would also say this: being a nice person. Just being a nice person throughout your life can help you in so many different ways. Like one of the ways, one of the jobs that just got was from someone that I knew through in middle school and high school, but literally had not seen this woman since high school. Yeah, that was through social media, she recognized that Jess was my wife. And I like to think that I was a nice enough person back then.

Jessica 28:27

Obviously.

Brandon 28:28

And so she saw Jess and was like, hey, you don't know me, but I went to high school with your husband. Talk and then obviously Jess did her thing and getting to know her, ended up leading to a job.

Emergency Funds And Benefit Planning

Jessica 28:38

Yeah, this was a few years ago. I we've talked about this before as well. And essentially that's what happened. I went to a women's networking event. I answered a couple of questions, was engaged during that event. And then this woman came up to me after and said, Hey, you have no idea who I am. I think you're married to Brandon Norwood. We went to middle school together. You know, um, I actually have an open position on my team. I was really impressed with what you said about da-da-da-da-da. Are you open to a conversation? I wasn't open for a job at that time, but we stayed in touch. We did a couple like breakfast meetups. And then when I was ready, guess who I reached out to? And then guess where I was hired. So it's all about making connections, genuinely following up, staying in touch. Please don't be that person that's like, yeah, we should do this, we should do that. No, put it on the calendar. Yeah. Go. If you're saying we should meet for coffee, email them, reach out, meet for coffee. Like it's not that hard. And these are the connections that literally could need lead to your next role. Like they, it is so important to build these relationships because at the end of the day, your network is how you get work. Hard stuff. Um so put yourself out there, make sure you're networking, make sure your LinkedIn is up to date, reach out to people, you know, that you've met at conferences, that you heard speak on panels. I mean, if you're uh plugging into virtual webinars and somebody is saying something that is standing out to you or has an impact or makes you go, hmm, I want to research that more, connect with that person afterwards and tell them in a LinkedIn message, hey, I joined this webinar. I thought the panel was amazing. You said this, this, and this. It really stuck with me because would you be open for a virtual coffee? You know, and then again, stay in touch, build your network. It's so, so important. Obviously, none of us go to work to volunteer. So it's all about the money.

Brandon 30:33

Unless you're a volunteer.

Jessica 30:34

Unless you're a volunteer. It's all about the money. So you need to really understand your financial position. And we've been talking about this so much. You have to have an emergency fund. And losing your job is an emergency.

Brandon 30:46

Yeah, about say one of the key things that can help you bring you some peace of mind, but then also help you manage that in between time if you are laid off uh until you find another job, is having a properly funded emergency fund. And I literally have a client who just went through a layoff and, you know, thankfully she just found a job, but she um had gotten a six month severance package, which is amazing, you know, so she had that time. In addition to them having a properly funded emergency fund, that was probably around eight to nine months worth of their expenses. And I was explaining to her, you know, when she was thinking about taking a position, she was like, I wasn't sure if I, you know, if I'm taking it too early, if I can continue looking. And I said, in all honesty, you can do either one because you have the severance package and you also have that emergency fund. I was like, you got to remember, you have that properly funded emergency fund, and this would be the time to use it to give you more time to find a position that you are really excited about and really fits what you want.

Jessica 31:44

Right. And I will say, and this is what I said to Brandon yesterday, we actually have a money meeting scheduled for tomorrow. I want to increase our savings because I am planning on staying in tech and it is volatile. And this time around, I don't have the six-month severance. I don't have kind of the cushy garden leave, where honestly, it was kind of nice to just come up for air for a little bit and to know I didn't have to like get right back into work and like find something right away and like be so stressed. It was actually nice to be like, yeah, today I'm gonna binge Netflix and I'm not gonna feel bad about it.

Brandon 32:21

I also say for working moms, that is key because my client, when she like she got laid off, her husband has a good job. So, you know, they had the income there in addition to the severance and the emergency fund. And I said to her from like our own personal experience, I'm like, take this time off to like, you know, kind of, you know, recalibrate yourself because she works hard, they have three children, and her husband and I were in agreement. It's like, you know, you don't have to rush back in.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Right.

Brandon 32:47

So like it helps you to have the time to, like you said, take some time off, breathe, and then be intentional about the next position you take because you have that cushion.

Jessica 32:58

Yeah. And you'll make a better decision finding the right next fit when you don't have to just take anything that's given to you. And especially again for moms who work outside of the home, even if it's 45 days, 60 days, where you're like, you know what, I'll lightly, you know, update my resume. I'll start making a couple of connections here and there, I'll, I'll entertain some, you know, some lunch meetings, but I'm not like doing 50 applications a day. I'm not grinding, I'm not, those things really make a difference because you also want to feel energized and refreshed when you do start your new role. I think the other thing to consider, um, like in this the situation that you were just describing, and then some of our other friends that we were describing, they have a spouse where they can hop on their insurance, which makes things easier. We don't really have that because you've been on my insurance since we were dating as a domestic partner. So I am thinking about when our Cobra runs out and how much is it going to cost to get insurance through the marketplace if I don't have a job that I'm excited about, et cetera. So you really have to understand your financial position, what the benefits were. Are you getting Cobra? One thing that I'll say is I joining this small company, I negotiated a small severance. I say small because it's small, but it's better than nothing. And I also negotiate negotiated Cobra. And that is something I will never not do again. Because if I had not asked for it, I do not think that I would have gotten a severance. Um, and I know that other people at that company did not negotiate a severance. And when I told them that I negotiated one, they were like, oh my gosh, that's the smartest thing I've ever heard. Friendly reminder, you can ask for whatever is important to you. In this day and age, severance is important to me. Severance and health insurance are always going to be something that if I can get it added in writing into my contract, I will do that.

Brandon 34:54

So, one big part of having a properly funded emergency fund is one, knowing what your monthly expenses are. So you need to determine what it is that you actually need to cover and also what you would like to cover. You can have two different numbers, you know, if it comes down to it, you have that break glass number where like we need to cut back to just the bare basics that we have. You know what that number is, but then you also want to think about, hey, you know, specifically what industry are you in? What does that turnover look like? And then also how likely is it for you to find another job and how long that would take. And that's going to determine how much you want, you know, from an emergency fund amount. Do you want to cover, you know, three months of expenses, six months of expenses, or even up to a year worth of expenses? It all depends on your personal situation, but it all starts with knowing how much you're spending on a monthly basis.

Jessica 35:40

Yep, exactly. And again, shout out to Monarch. That's what we've been using. We've got a 50% off your first year discount code. And it it gives you the picture. It gives you the visibility to really understand the money you have coming in, the money you have going out, and we'll help you understand exactly what is the bare bones number versus, well, we still want to grab some coffees or we still want to go to lunch, or I still want to keep my housekeeper during this time. What is it going to look like financially if we did X, Y, Z?

Brandon 36:09

So I'd also say, too, um obviously a lot of these companies do provide severance packages, but unless you sign that in your employment agreement, doesn't mean you're necessarily entitled to one. So you could be at a company where they've done layoffs in the past and they give a severance package. You're thinking, like, if it happens to you, you'll get a severance package. But you, I wouldn't necessarily plan on that unless it's legally written in your contract. So for example, we knew Jess would get one because it was legally in her contract, contract. So it'd be a breach of contract if they didn't give her one. But if you're just at a company where you were hired, this wasn't discussed. I would not move forward with the idea that you would have one. So I would don't assume I would completely base your personal situation as far as your emergency fund off of as if you don't have that severance package.

Jessica 36:52

Yeah, absolutely. And then take some time to get clear on what you want, right? Like, were you going into an office, but you would rather be remote? Maybe you've been remote for years and you actually miss the office. Um, what is the the bare minimum salary that you would accept? What kind of team size do you want to be on? I can tell you going from a 70,000, 75,000 employee company down to a 30 employee company, which by when I left in early March, we were down to like, I don't know, 10 or 11 people maybe. I I don't need to go back to a startup. Like, I know that there's benefits to that. Um, and we've we've definitely had some friends who've gotten the windfall. We've also had some friends who joined the startup thinking that they were gonna IPO and have this big windfall, and ain't nothing happened, right? So, like joining those companies is a risk. I know that I want to be in the small to mid or enterprise space. Like, that is where I'm happy. That is where I feel, and I'm doing air quotes, I'm where I feel safest. Um, what kind of seniority level are you looking for? Do you want to switch industries? Like, really think about what kind of role you're looking for so that you can position your resume that way. Talk to your partner. Don't go through this alone. Really get clear so that by the time you do need to hit the ground running, you know exactly what kind of roles you're targeting, who you need to be reaching out to, what companies are at the top of your list, um, you know, what events that you want to go to, where those companies might have a strong presence, et cetera. You got to have that clarity.

Brandon 38:28

Yeah. So once you have that clarity, it's kind of now if it does happen to you and you happen to be part of a layoff, well, here's exactly what you need to do next.

Jessica 38:37

Okay. So I would say take a breath. The first day, try not to spiral, you know, get let your manager get through their speech. If HR is there, take your notes, get all the information you can. You know, if you're at a big enterprise company contesting the layoff is probably not gonna be worth your time or energy. Yeah, it's it's probably not worth your time or energy. Um, but ask about next steps, right? What's the paperwork gonna look like, the timeline, what are the severance details, how much time do you have? I mean, again, in these big tech companies, you might get the six-month garden leave. You might get uh, you know, 45 to 60 days to technically still be employed at that company without actually having to do work. I'm gonna tell you, that's not a bad spot to be in.

Brandon 39:27

We definitely enjoyed that aspect of when you at late office. I needed the breather.

Jessica 39:31

I needed the breather, and that I was very, very, very grateful. So, you know, text your person, text your partner, text your best friend, absorb it, don't spiral, and then don't do anything else for the rest of the day.

Brandon 39:43

Also, too, like if you're contesting and arguing with them, that doesn't leave a good taste in their mouth upon you leaving.

Jessica 39:50

Right.

Brandon 39:50

Because there might be opportunity for you to be rehired and you don't want to burn any bridges in this scenario.

Jessica 39:56

And a lot of times after these mass layoffs, especially in the enterprise space, they are trying to reabsorb you into the business, right? It is easier to just hire somebody that's already been there than to start from scratch and onboard and all those things. And a lot of times the companies are trying to quote unquote do the right thing and open up requisitions to only internal employees versus external. And so there might be opportunity there. So just, you know, understand the politics and kind of tread lightly. Once you get your paperwork, that might be in the first 48 hours, it might take a week. That's gonna depend, but really understand your package. So print it out, read every page, mark your key dates on your calendar, highlight them. You do not want to miss any deadlines. This is really, really important. Um, so whether that's signing deadlines, benefits and dates, RSU vesting windows, separation dates, like make sure you are clear on key dates. I think that's really, really important.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Yes.

Jessica 40:56

Um, I would create a shared note. You and I did this on not only the dates, but also like questions that are coming up because here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna read through everything. If you're at a large company, they're probably gonna have videos. They might even have webinars for you to join to really understand what's happening. You're gonna walk away from that and you're gonna have questions. You're gonna have questions at three o'clock in the morning and you're gonna be like, I need to write this down. Okay, make a shared note with your partner and write it down so you can talk about it. Maybe the answer is right there in front of you in the paperwork that you got, but your mind's a little clouded right now. Or it's something that you need to go back to your HR benefits partner or business partner to actually discuss and get clarity on.

Brandon 41:39

I would also say, too, if you're in a scenario where you just completely don't understand what's going on and how to navigate that, it can be helpful to work with a professional. I have helped many of clients work through layoffs. I recently even helped my mother-in-law, Jess's mom, through her layoff. And we found some things that we needed to have addressed that she would have completely missed.

Jessica 42:00

Correct. Including she would have signed it like the next day. Yeah. And she had 21 days to sign and still be eligible for her severance.

Brandon 42:10

Because most of those things say like once you sign the agreement, you can no longer contest anything. Right. So you do want to make sure that you've had every question that you have answered and that you have all the information prior to signing. So, for example, one of the things that, you know, upon looking through her information was is that she um was entitled to more of a company match that was should be coming, but there was no information regarding that company match. So I was like, we need to write an email to the HR to figure out, hey, you're entitled to this company match because you were employed on this date. And it says you within her summary plan description that if you're employed on this date, then you're entitled to the match. And we were like, when is that going to be dispersed to you and how?

Jessica 42:48

Right. And that was what several thousand dollars.

Brandon 42:50

Yeah, she did and she didn't realize.

Jessica 42:52

Yeah. The other thing that you can ask about are how the severance is going to be paid out. Is it gonna be a lump sum? Is it over time? Um, for example, my first severance was paid out in a lump sum. Um, my current severance, I'm still on the regular payroll schedule. So I was a little caught off guard by that. Those are things that you are going to want to know. They're also going to have potential tax implications. Same thing if you're getting maybe Cobra. Is it going to be paid out in a lump sum? And then you can make a decision to choose Cobra or go to the marketplace. Is the company gonna pay it automatically? And you want to make sure that there's no lapse in coverage. Like, know the things.

Brandon 43:28

Yeah, the the the clear point we want to get a part of the clear point that we want to get across here is that you need to very much understand the package that you have and read through all the information.

Jessica 43:39

Yep. You might be able to accelerate your RSUs and their vesting schedule. And then just one thing to call out is that if you are receiving a severance, you might not be eligible for unemployment until that severance ends.

Brandon 43:54

So that can vary from state to state.

Paperwork Deadlines And Severance Details

Jessica 43:56

Yeah. So look at your state's policy. Um, some Sometimes if people apply like the day that they, you know, get let go, then they apply, then they have to go through and it's it's a whole process. So just know what's going on with your state, uh, whether you should apply immediately, or if you might need to wait to hopefully mitigate some other problems. Um, I also think just in general, giving yourself permission to process what has happened, I think is important because I know so many of us are like, go, go, go, we've got bills to pay, we need to get our family's insurance coverage, but you need to just take a beat. You really do need to just take a day, take take two days, go to lunch with a friend, binge some Netflix, and just try to mentally decompress so that when you are ready to start this whole process, you have a little bit of clarity. You're not completely exhausted. Um you also want to put a time limit limit on it. I'm big on that. I'm like, all right, let's cry it out for 10 minutes and then let's move on. Because you don't want to get into this like, woe is me, wallowing state. We already know this was not a you problem. This was not a reflection of how amazing you are. This was just simply a business decision. So don't wallow forever. Um, I think also when you're going into the job search, really think about exactly what it is you want to do. Set yourself a schedule, right? Like I'm gonna apply to jobs from nine and to 11 Monday through Thursday, or I'm gonna, you know, work on my resume for the first week. I'm gonna send it to a couple of people, I'm gonna ask them to look over it. Sometimes, again, at the bigger companies, you might even get, you know, a job search service, a resume writing service, an interview skills class. Like they, I mean, they some of these companies are really trying to do what they can to help you get to your next role. So really come up with a schedule that makes sense for you, where you're dedicating time to applying, you know, to new jobs, to networking, to going to webinars, to going to events, to going to job fairs, etc. Um, but the more consistent you can be, the better. You don't want to just be like willy-nilly trying to figure out when you're gonna do something, because then the reality is you're probably not gonna get it done and something else is gonna come up. So in general, I think that there's a lot that we can say about layoffs and how to handle it and the red flags and all the things, but really just remember that at this stage, these mass layoffs are are not a reflection of of you and your work ethic and what you bring to the table. So try not to internalize it. Um, these are business decisions, they are not a verdict on your value. So stay calm, stay clear-headed, and in the time that you are employed, put systems and process and savings in place.

Brandon 46:55

Put a plan in place. I mean at the end of the day, we are a financial literacy podcast, and a big part of financial literacy is financial planning.

Jessica 47:03

Yes.

Brandon 47:04

So you want to, you said while you're employed, while you have time, sit down with your partner or you know, if you're single, take a look at your budget. What are your monthly expenses? Determine how much of an emergency fund you should have, automate those contributions to your high-off savings account so that you could build up those emergency funds so that if that layoff, I should probably honestly say in this environment, almost when that layoff happens, you're prepared. It's gonna, you know, you're not gonna, it's not gonna be happy, obviously, when it happens. But then after when you think about it more, like, okay, I'm glad that I listened to the Sugar Daddy podcast. They told me to put an emergency fund in place. I have an eight-month worth of expenses saved up. I'm good.

Jessica 47:39

Yeah, you're gonna sleep so much better knowing that you don't have to put yourself in a situation you don't want to be in. You don't have to accept a job that you're gonna hate. You will be okay because you've done the work ahead of time. Now, obviously, we are not wishing a layoff on anybody, uh, myself included, but I've now had two in in two years and they're rampant. So we don't wish it on anybody, but we do want you to have a plan. We do want you to be prepared, and we do want you to think about those red flags. So if something feels off with your team, with your company, with promotions, with salary, with your workload, listen to your gut.

Brandon 48:20

Yeah.

Jessica 48:20

So you have an intuition for a reason. Yeah.

Brandon 48:22

So after listen to this episode, get your emergency fund set up.

Jessica 48:25

Go ahead in a high yield savings account.

Brandon 48:28

Yes, in a high yield savings account.

Jessica 48:29

Cannot stress that enough.

Brandon 48:30

Update your resume, update your LinkedIn, your brag. Start to, you know, start to network on a regular basis if you're not already doing that. And then also start paying better attention to what's going on in your company. If you are a public company, you know, start paying attention to, you know, the earnings calls and stuff of that nature so that you can kind of see what's on the horizon and it won't hopefully catch you completely off guard if it does happen.

Process It Then Run A Job Search

Jessica 48:53

Yeah, absolutely. So if you're going through a layoff, uh, I'm right there with you. And um, you know, I'm wishing you the absolute best. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, send this episode to a friend or family member that might be going through this that needs not only the encouragement to know that it's not you, it's them, uh, but also to get these tips and tricks and things to look for on how to navigate the layoff and prepare yourself for if it happens to you. So hopefully you get gained something from this episode. Share it with your friends. Please leave a review. I know we haven't talked about this in a while. I think our last review was from like five months ago. Y'all, the reviews are so helpful. They help put the podcast in front of other people.

Brandon 49:40

It helps the algorithm. And it's free for you to do.

Jessica 49:44

It's free. It'll take a few seconds. You can tap the five stars. That'll take half a second. And then if you leave a written review, it means so much to us. So please, please, please, if you like our podcast and you're listening every week, take the time to leave a review. It means so much. And hopefully this episode helped, and we will talk to you next week. Don't forget, Benjamin Franklin said, an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid. Until next time.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Sugar Daddy Podcast go. Learn how to make the pockets grow. Finance of freedoms where we grow. Smart investments, money flow.

Jessica 50:21

Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review, and share this episode with your friends, family, and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the Sugar Daddy Podcast. You can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our past the sugar segments at thesugardaddypodcast at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail through our Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Our content is intended to be used and must be used for informational purposes public. It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based upon your own personal circumstances. We should take independent money to advisor reliance professional and connection with or infinitely research and verify any information you find in our podcast and what you rely upon, whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.