138: The 20% Raise You're Not Getting by Staying at Your Job

The Pay Gap Wake Up Call

Jessica 0:00

You just found out that the new hire doing your same job makes 15k more than you do. Do you stay and negotiate, or do you walk? Loyalty feels noble, but the data doesn't always reward it. So in today's episode, we're talking about job hopping versus loyalty. What actually pays?

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Sugar Daddy Podcast, yo. Learn how to make them pockets grow. Fun mental freedoms where we grow. Smart investments, money flow.

Action Over Consumption Mindset

Jessica 0:30

Welcome back to the Sugar Daddy Podcast. If you are a first-time listener, welcome to the show. We are so glad to have you. And if you were an OG, thanks for coming back week over week. This is the podcast that helps you build a clear financial plan so you can feel confident and in control of your money. And babe, before we get into it today, I just have to give a shout out for a review that we recently got. And it is absolutely incredible because every single episode we give you a call to action. Because this is not just an like, we don't want you just to consume our content. We want you to actually do. We want you to move your needle forward, whatever that is. And this person, um, the title was 1995 Millennial. Uh, we're gonna give a shout-out because this review is just too good to keep to ourselves. Um, and it is by bibbity bibbidi bombom. Bitty biddib, bitty biddibom. Woo, sorry, bitty bitty bomb bum.

Brandon 1:31

Um single song.

Jessica 1:33

Yes, I just got it. Um, oh, and that makes sense because um, well, let me get into it and then it'll all come together. So this says last year I turned 30 and had my two babies. Congratulations. My husband and I decided to get serious about getting our finances in order. So I started researching and stumbled upon the Sugar Daddy podcast in March. Since then, I've taken the following actions: moved our emergency savings to an HYSA, adjusted my 457B and my husband's 401k to maximize our employer contributions, opened Roth IRAs for both of us, and automated our contributions to hit the yearly max, put all of our tax refund towards our principal car loan, hopefully paid off fully by next year. And we are now planning for our next goals: saving for a down payment on a house and getting our life and disability insurances in order. All this to say, I'm very grateful for the knowledge Jess and Brandon have provided me over the last month. This is 30 days, y'all. I mean, that is incredible. And especially appreciate the action items at the end of each episode. I'm feeling more confident and in control of my family's future with every step and am hopeful about the financial legacy we will be able to hand off to our children. Yes. Especially as a first-gen daughter of immigrants whose parents were too busy surviving to learn about or access these tools. Thank you both. Most people don't get this done in a year. No. Let alone 30 days. This is why we show up week after week.

Brandon 3:06

Yeah, this that's the main Oh my gosh. That's the main goal of this podcast is to provide you guys with information that is actionable and you actually take the steps and do this stuff, and it improves your financial life and just your overall, you know, your overall happiness with your life.

Jessica 3:20

Absolutely. So listen, bitty bitty bum bum, amazing. Shout out to you. We are so proud of you. And thank you for tuning in. Thank you and pat on the back for yourself for taking action. And if she can do it, anybody can do it. Like it's not that hard. I know it feels intimidating, but that's why we do the episodes the way we do them to hopefully take away the intimidation and the jargon and all the things that like make you feel stuck. And the first step is to take the first step.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Yes.

Jessica 3:52

So we just wanted to shout that out because absolutely incredible and we're so proud of you. So, but what are we talking about today, babe?

Loyalty Versus Job Hopping Reality

Brandon 4:01

Today we are talking about the conversation between being loyal and staying at your job, or possibly job hopping in regards to what actually pays off in the long term.

Jessica 4:13

And I think that's such a good topic because if you are a millennial, elder millennial, you know, we uh we understand the premise behind job hopping and what it can do for you financially, but it's also very scary out there right now. And I think what's changed is our parents' generation. It's like stay in the job for 30 years, get the pension, keep your head down, and then retire. Well, we're not set up like that. Like, ain't nobody getting a pension. We're probably not even gonna get social security. So, you know, you have to go where you're challenged, where you feel valued, where you like your team. But at the end of the day, life is expensive. So you also have to go where the money is.

Brandon 4:57

Yeah. I think it's also very hard because I think a lot of us, if we have a, you know, pretty good relationship with our parents, we ask them for advice and stuff like that. And the advice that they would give on this topic is coming from a completely different time period. And things have changed dramatically. You know, during their time period, you know, you stay at a job 30, 40 years, get your pension, depending on where you're at, maybe get your watch when you retire, and then you're good to go.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Yeah.

Brandon 5:22

And that there was definitely a lot of benefits of being loyal to one employer. And that has completely shifted in regards to how we have to navigate our careers now because that loyalty doesn't pay off the same way anymore, nowhere near it.

Jessica 5:37

You're not getting a Rolex for staying 30 years anymore.

Brandon 5:39

I mean, the thing is too, is that you know, we've experienced it where like, you know, layoffs are abundant now. So you could be with a company for, you know, 10 plus years, and next thing you know, layoff happens and you're gone.

Jessica 5:50

Yep.

Brandon 5:51

And that's the hard part about layoffs, is because layoffs aren't necessarily based upon performance.

Jessica 5:56

Yeah. And we just did an episode on that, right? Like, it is not, it doesn't matter how long you've been there. I mean, I've been laid off twice in the last two years. We've got friends who were super loyal to their companies, 15 plus years at their companies, high performers, climbing up the ranks, still got laid off. Um, and so you have to start thinking like your mind starts shifting from like, I'm gonna be loyal, and you know, that whole like this, you know, the work is my family. And no, mm-mm, they're not. They're not. You are a number. You will be.

Brandon 6:29

I mean, unless literally you're self-employed and it's a family business.

unknown 6:33

Yeah.

Jessica 6:33

And it is your business. Otherwise, no, they are not your family. So that needs to get out of your head. And we've seen it all too often, right? Like somebody gets really sick, somebody, heaven forbid, passes away, their desk is cleared out, and that requisition is opened within 24 hours. Like you are replaceable. And I know that we all want to think that we're special and we got the secret sauce, and what we bring to the table is like extra amazing. And for many of us, that is the case, but it doesn't matter. It's still not enough because at the end of the day, the business will make a business case. And if they feel like a reduction in workforce is the best financial option, it doesn't matter how well you've performed or how long you've performed that well.

Why Switching Jobs Compounds Income

Jessica 7:15

And so today we're gonna go a little bit back and forth on like, do you stay? Do you go? You know? Um, but I mean, the data still shows overwhelmingly that, you know, these piddly 1.5, maybe up to 5% raises that people are getting year over year, more of like a cost of living raise, are not in comparison to when you leave a company and you can negotiate sometimes a 10 to 20% increase in your base. And so if you're doing that every what, three to five years, that can have a substantial impact on the way you build wealth over time.

Brandon 7:54

Yeah. One of the main parts of, you know, financial planning is also maximizing your income. And while you're in your prime earning years, by like you said, making those changes every few or every um few years, and it's a strategic change. It's not just simply you're making lateral movements from one company to another. It does have to be strategic in the sense of maybe, you know, a step up um in regards to whatever your title may be. But in addition with that, not just simply the title, also the pay that comes with that because the numbers show, you know, staying at a company year after year after year, those incremental increases that you get in your income is nowhere near keeping up if you were to change, you know, companies every three to five years.

Jessica 8:35

Right. Well, and think about it too. Let's say you switch jobs, you get a let's say you get a 20% increase, which would be amazing, right? Now, the next year, when maybe you get a 4% increase, that's a 4% increase on 20% more than you were making. Again, that's compounded interest exactly on itself. So you have to think about not just the in the moment I'm signing my offer, but what is this going to look like year over year long term?

Test The Market Without Quitting

Brandon 9:05

And the thing is, too, it's maybe not even necessarily about, you know, job hopping, but also testing the market. All right.

Jessica 9:15

Yeah. So you feel very which is funny because you haven't tested the market in years because you work for yourself. So uh, you know, do as he says, not as he does, people. But I understand what you're saying.

Brandon 9:28

Well, so the biggest thing is that, like, obviously, in the environment we're in right now with so much uncertainty where people are afraid to do certain things, but the idea is that you don't necessarily have to leave your current company for another company. You can test the markets. So if you are interviewing at other companies, and let's just say, for example, you were interviewing for jobs that are very similar to the one that you currently have. But say another job is going to pay you $30,000 more with similar benefits package and everything. So, you know, we're comparing apples to apples, but you're getting a significant increase. You can take that number back to your current employer and say, hey, I have this job over offer over here. That's this amount. Now your your new employer might not increase to that full new amount, but they might be your old employer. So your old employer might not increase you, you know, that additional 30,000.

Jessica 10:14

But losing you is gonna cost more.

Brandon 10:16

Exactly. Yeah. And it especially if you are someone who is good at your job, you already, you know, you've been there for years, you know the environment, you know the product or whatever the job entails, it takes so much more money and time and effort to find somebody new, make sure that person's actually a good fit to begin with, and then ramp them up and everything like that. It costs so much more. There is that significant cost of turnover and um with employees. So testing the market to one, find out, am I underpaid? Because if you find out that you have like three other companies that are willing to pay you, you know, $20,000 more, $30,000 more than what you're currently getting at your uh current employer, you're under you're getting underpaid. You're underpaid. It's plain and simple.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Yeah.

Brandon 10:57

And that gives you a little bit of leverage in order to maybe get a little bit more where you're at without having to move.

Jessica 11:02

Yeah. I also think there's a couple of things. So um we had a friend who did this. Um, she was with IBM for like 15 years, went to a more local company, interviewed. They, I think, offered her close to $40,000 more. And she ended up taking that offer back to IBM. And they were like, Yeah, no problem. We got you. Right. Because they didn't want to see her and all of her tribal knowledge walk out the door because they knew, like you said, it would cost so much more time and money to replace her and get her ramped or whoever they're gonna replace her with ramped back up than to just do the right thing, which is all right, let me give you fair market value for your sk skills and for your loyalty.

Brandon 11:45

I would also say that like a company has so many other things on their plate that they're worried about that maybe they're not, they're not gonna be the ones proactively checking to make sure that everyone is paid to current market value. You do have to be an advocate for yourself.

Jessica 11:59

Yeah, especially. So I will say

Pay Transparency And Interview Practice

Jessica 12:02

um public companies do this better than private companies. Um, so there was a company, it was private, now it is actually public. Um, and there was like a huge scandal. Somebody emailed something that they shouldn't have. All the salaries got basically leaked. Um, and you know, this was like kind of back in the day, but you know that thing went viral. Like somebody printed that email, went to the copy machine, and everybody got a copy. Like that's kind of what happened. So, anyway, people very quickly realized there was a huge discrepancy. And what ended up happening is there was huge discrepancies between male and female coworkers doing the same job, same title. It was, it was a mess. It was a mess. At um at public companies, they actually have teams that are constantly evaluating um salaries and they are looking for those indicators of, you know, tenure, race, gender, et cetera, to make sure that you don't have scandals like this that happen. So you're a little bit more protected at public companies. Um, but you just you want to test the market. I think it's also really good to keep the skill of interviewing because interviewing is a skill. And if you've been at the same company and you know, there's a difference between being at the same company and kind of changing business units, changing roles, changing titles, changing responsibilities, and you're internally interviewing versus like, no, I've been in this same position for the past like 10 plus years, and I my resume has not changed, I have not interviewed, you're losing a skill.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah.

Jessica 13:47

Interviewing is a skill. It is a muscle you continuously have to build. And so even understanding like what new questions are being asked, what priorities do other companies have, those things are really important to keep you sharp. So even if it is not, you know, quote unquote for the money, keep your keep yourself sharp in that manner as well.

When Staying Actually Pays Off

Brandon 14:08

Yeah. And even, you know, obviously right now we were talking about some of the cons of staying, you know, with a company long term. There can also be some pros that actually do come with that loyalty. So for example, you know, when it comes to your employer match. So most of the time with an employer match into a you know a retirement account, 403B, 401k, whatever it may be, you have to be there for a certain period of time in order to be completely entitled to the employer match that they've contributed.

Jessica 14:35

So like the besting period. Yeah.

Brandon 14:37

So normally the vesting schedule is kind of a common one is to be there for at least four years to be a hundred percent entitled to the entire amount that your employer has contributed. So there could be a benefit of staying there for at least that four-year period to get the full contribution.

Jessica 14:51

That's how they get you.

Brandon 14:52

It's it can be how it gets you. That can also be involved in regards to if you have any type of equity within the company, whether that's you know that's RSUs, that's another way they get you.

Jessica 15:01

Exactly.

Brandon 15:01

As far as possibly staying longer to make sure that all those, all your stock options vest. Um, one that's not quite as common anymore, obviously the pension. But if you are working within the uh um government sector, that could be a benefit.

Jessica 15:17

Yep. Yeah.

Layoffs And Building A Real Network

Jessica 15:18

Yeah. I mean, I think too, you have to weigh out, right? We know especially what industry you're in, um, I think, especially if you're in tech like I am, it's very volatile, right? So again, it doesn't matter that you're star performer, that everybody loves you, that your projects are going well.

Brandon 15:35

It doesn't matter that it's a it's a big company, like a stable company.

Jessica 15:38

And at this point, you know, because that people have all have said historically, and this kind of is what I always thought about if you are aligned to what is bringing the business money, right? So, like in my world, it's I'm supporting the sales team, or I am a seller. So, like without product being sold, the company does not exist. So, you know, you're you're in the main part of the business or you're as as close as you can be. You're working on projects that are getting funding, right? Like the AI projects and the cool new technologies and the this and the that, all the innovative stuff. Even then, I I was let go from a pro from a um a team where we were literally piloting like this massive multimillion dollar program, right? It was like an AI uh an system that we were building. Anyways, got laid off in the middle of that. So, like, even when you think you're safe, you are no longer safe. And so I think it's good to stay sharp, keep your resume updated, constantly network, like genuinely network, right?

Brandon 16:42

That's a huge one.

Jessica 16:43

Yeah. Because your network is how you get work.

Brandon 16:46

As I've seen, you know, being with Jess, I think it's one of her superpowers. It's one of the things that she does amazingly and also does it naturally, is that she is consistently networking. And so, therefore, you know, in these scenarios, when she does get laid off, it's not as if she is starting from zero to start reaching out to people to establish some type of connection. She's already been talking to them, she's already been establishing this connection, she's already been helping other people so that when she actually does need some help or has a favor to ask, or can you refer me for this job internally? It's easy for her and people have no problems doing it.

Jessica 17:18

Right. So go to the events, go to the networking, go to your college alumni group events. Like if you have different certifications, like I got my PMP last year. Now I'm part of a, you know, PMP group in my area that hosts events. Like all of those people work for companies that I might be interested in in the future. Like build genuine relationships, follow up, go to, you know, go to coffee, go to lunch, do do the things. Yeah, exactly. Do the things.

Brandon 17:46

Because I would say, like, I'm not the best networker by any means, and I could definitely improve. But I also think sometimes, you know, people when they think of networking, they're thinking of specifically going to a networking event where you're standing around just talking to people.

Jessica 17:57

Right. With your little name tag.

Brandon 17:59

Yeah, you could do it in other ways. Like there, you could you like, for example, if you're someone that's into pickleball now, right? There are ways to network while you're just playing pickleball so it feels more natural, or just find whatever hobbies you're into or sports. And there can definitely be things and revolved um in regards to having professional connections while doing that said activity so that it feels less like hard networking.

Jessica 18:24

Right. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't need to be I'm going to a networking event. It's I'm going to an event to genuinely get to know people and to build relationships. Yes. Yeah. I will say, I think, depending on what industry you're in, there are pros and cons to what we would have have historically said, like, yeah, test the market every two to three years, make sure that you're being paid properly. With all of that said, make sure that you are not leaving your job before having another job when you can. When you can. I don't, I don't know. I just felt like I needed to call that out. But unless you're just like rolling in dough and you don't need your job.

Brandon 19:06

Or unless it's like a very like unless it's an extremely intoxic environment where that is weighing on your mental health and it's just not a good situation. But that's also in the same context of hopefully you have adequate emergency savings set aside so that you can make that exit and have that time to find a new job. But the ideal scenario is that you find another job while you have a job.

Non Negotiables And Season Of Life

Jessica 19:29

Yes, yes. And then too, think about, and we've done episodes on this in the past too. Think about the things that are important to you that you really like about your current job, the things that, you know, bring you energy, bring you joy. Maybe it's maybe it's as simple as I really like working from home because of this phase of life that I'm in. Maybe you start interviewing and they're like, yeah, we're in office three days a week, and you're like, nope, that life is not for me. I'm not there yet. Right. Like you have to start weighing what is and is not important, where you can and will not make sacrifices. And when you put yourself out there and you're interviewing and you're networking and you're learning about what's happening at in other companies, it helps you build your list of non-negotiable, non-negotiables, of must-haves, of things where you will be flexible and will you where you will bend. And then things where you're like, you know what? No, I'm I'm not gonna do that. Like as I've been interviewing age and age, yes. Like as I've been interviewing, I've met with a couple of recruiters, they've proposed some jobs, they're like, we think you'd be great for this. And I'm like, great, tell me more. And a lot of them have said they're in office five days a week or they're in office three days a week. And again, I'm just not there yet. Like, I'm happy to go into an office a handful of times. I'm happy to go into an office during the onboarding period. I'm always happy to like meet you in an office in a different state, in a different country, to do some onboarding. You know, like, but Monday through Friday, the way our life is set up right now, that would really wreak havoc, I think, on us.

Brandon 21:02

It's also determining what season of life you're in.

Jessica 21:04

Yeah.

Brandon 21:05

And what fits that season. And then also kind of like what you stated, what gives you the best peace of mind? You know, because with us having young kids, being able to work from home makes our life significantly easier.

Jessica 21:18

Yes.

Brandon 21:18

And so, you know, that's like you said, that's one of your non-negotiables at this point in time. And you can have that as a non-negotiable because of what you do and what you bring to the table from your experience. So it's also what type of experience do you have behind you that allows you to ask for certain things?

Jessica 21:32

Yes.

Brandon 21:33

Because you also have to be realistic in what you're asking.

Jessica 21:35

Yes. Absolutely, absolutely. Like it's a negotiation, you know.

Brandon 21:39

So that's another big part. I think it's also like between being loyal to a company and job hopping is also a mentality. I think too many people think that, oh, I'm so lucky that this company has given me a job. Instead of this company's lucky to have me also, because I'm a hard worker and I know what I bring to the table.

Jessica 22:02

Absolutely. Yeah. You have to be, you're interviewing them just like they're interviewing you. Yes. And it has to be the right fit. Now, there's things to consider too, right? Like, and I've talked about this before. Before I was let go from Cisco, I was actually hired for another internal role. And I was really excited to work for a new leader. Not because I didn't get along great with my other leader, and I had a ton of respect for her and how she operates, and I learned a lot under her. But there's value in learning from other people. Yes. And she was like 10 years ex-Google, ex-Microsoft. She was like a West Coaster. You know, I just was like really hungry to learn from a new leader and to be on a new team and just to learn and grow in different ways and to kind of like expand my skill set. Um, and so thinking about like, where are you gonna get mentorship? Where are you gonna get sponsorship, right? There's a difference between a mentor and a sponsor. We're gonna save that for a different episode. But like thinking about too, not just what you can bring to a role, but what are you going to get out of potentially changing, you know, roles, business units, companies, et cetera. What skill sets can you add to add to your aside from just the monetary? Now, monetary is huge. We know that money is a tool, and the more money you have, the more tools you have at your disposal. Like, yes. Um, but there's a lot more that goes into it. So as you're thinking about, you know, how long you've been in your role, what are you getting out of it, what is the company providing? Um, if you haven't tested the market, it might just be time to just test. We're not telling you to go quit your job.

Brandon 23:37

And that's the best time to do it is when you have a job.

Jessica 23:40

And you can say no.

Brandon 23:41

Because one, if you haven't done it in a while, you can get some reps under your belt to get in, you know, get yourself used to doing it again.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Yep.

Brandon 23:49

And as you said before, you know, when you have a job that you're already happy with, you can be very sp uh picky and choosy if you were to make a change. Um what would you say are some like the rules of like smart job hopping if you're going to, you know, do that?

Smart Job Hopping Rules

Jessica 24:04

Well, definitely, you know, be employed if you can while you're looking for a new job. Um I would say it's important to look for companies that you know are going to give you better, right? So like let's say you're with a really small company and you're like, man, this health insurance is really terrible. Or I used to work for a public company and I got RSUs. Now I work for a private company and I don't get them anymore. I really want to go back to public because of the better benefits package. And I have options to either get stock given to me as, you know, like annual bonuses and or maybe be part of like the employee stock purchase program where you can buy stock at a discount. Like again, thinking about what you're really looking for. Maybe you're in office right now and you know you want to go remote. Maybe there's on-site childcare and you're like, oh, my baby's about to go to daycare. Like those are things to think about.

Brandon 25:00

Yeah.

Jessica 25:01

Um I was gonna say one more that people sometimes don't think about is um if you know that you're going to be going through any kind of fertility treatments, right? If you maybe are like, hey, I I this is gonna be a big burden cost wise, there are companies that will cover all or part of the cost of IVF, adoption, et cetera. Maybe that's a perk you're looking into. So I would really analyze like what is important, not just the title and the salary, but like what is the company offering as a total comp package.

Brandon 25:34

Yeah. Um, I would also add that one, you want to have been with your company at least for a couple of years before you hop ship, because no other company wants to look that you're changing jobs every year. That's not a good pattern.

Jessica 25:47

It usually comes up as more of a red flag, especially I, you know, I follow a lot of recruiters on LinkedIn. And I will say I tend to see younger recruiters not be as phased by, you know, people having, you know, one to two years at a company versus more senior or older recruiters seem to still be a little turned off by that. Because then you're like, well, why am I putting all this effort in when you're just gonna leave in a year?

Brandon 26:13

Yeah. So you want to at least also being there for a year maybe doesn't even give you enough time to really shine at that company and kind of make you stand out to be remembered.

Jessica 26:23

It took me almost a year when I was at Cisco to figure out who to talk to and who to go to for what. Well, like within my specific program for the things I was doing, because it was so large, global, highly matrixed. It I mean, even that, like figuring out those like internal political dynamics, that can take a year.

Brandon 26:42

And then, like, you know, after that, we've kind of mentioned it um previously, but you know, when you make these moves, you really shouldn't be just doing them to go sideways. They really should be upward mobility. Now, the one time the the like one of the exceptions where maybe it could really make sense to move laterally is that you are now coming underneath a leader that's could move your career forward exponentially. And that's someone who's a sponsor and not just simply a mentor, a mentor. Yeah. So that could, you know, that's one of the exceptions that can make you know a difference in regards to doing a lateral move. But um, one of the things with that is also knowing your number. Like in order to make a move, what is the amount that you would need to make that move? You know, so you know, anywhere from 15 to 20 percent, it's kind of like what's gonna make more sense because switching jobs necessarily for just a five percent increase doesn't make sense if it's only based upon the salary.

Jessica 27:34

That's not even a tank of gas. If you're getting 26 paychecks a year, you know, like that's not it, you're gonna you're not gonna feel that. That's not gonna be this like, oh my gosh, look at this paycheck, it's amazing. Yeah, for looking at it. You're not gonna feel it.

Brandon 27:46

If you're looking simply at the set income, it has to be a little bit more than that.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Yeah.

Brandon 27:51

And then also I would say, too, at the end of the day, when you're making these changes, the idea is that you're making them because they're in your best interest, but at the same time, you don't want to burn bridges.

Jessica 28:01

Yeah, no.

Brandon 28:01

So you have to make sure that when you are at your relationships. Keep those relationships because you have no idea how you might circle back around and come in, you know, contact with the same person, whether it's at the same whether it's at the same company or potentially a different company.

Jessica 28:15

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the whole concept around loyalty is to use it as a strategy, not just to use it because you've gotten a little lazy, right? Where you're like, uh, it's easy. I'm complacent. I'm, I don't want to update my resume, I don't want to interview. I mean, applying for jobs is a job.

Brandon 28:35

And that was if you are happy where you're at and you're happy in regards to your position and you have no desire to move upward, that's fine. This episode's not for you. Just letting you know this is not the episode for you.

Jessica 28:49

But it's things to think about.

Brandon 28:50

Yes, but what I'm saying is like some people are just fine. They're like, I make this amount of money. Yeah, I I know my job. I've been doing it for you know 10 years. It doesn't, I don't have to think about it. I do it, I'm fine, I'm happy with everything. If that's you, hey, do you do whatever makes you happy? This episode's not for you. This is for the mover and shakers trying to move up.

Jessica 29:09

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think too, if you're going to job hop, like you said, do it with intention, have a strategy, have a plan behind it. Are you looking for a new title because it's gonna help you ultimately get to where you want to be, you know, in the future? Is it gonna give you better benefits, better work-life balance, new leaders, new sponsors, new mentors, better stock options? Like whatever that is for you, make sure that you've got some intention behind why you're making

Negotiation Tactics And Asking For More

Jessica 29:40

the move. Even if it's once again, planning. Yeah. I just want to test the market. I want to make sure that I'm not being underpaid. Um, I think too, and this is something we've talked about often is talk to your friends, especially if they're in the same industry. Like, how much are your friends making? What are their bonuses? What are their sign-on bonuses? Um, how much stock are they getting every quarter? Like, I have two handfuls of friends. We know each other's numbers, we talk about it all the time. We are excited about each other's raises, promotions, sign on bonuses, like, but you don't know if you don't ask. And if you're especially if you're in the same industry, ask. Like have these conversations. The people making the most money are having these conversations in their circles regularly. And for the women listening, have a man. Listen, Brandon already knows I've got a work husband and we don't even work together anymore. We were chatting this morning, and I was talking about all right, what would you do for this, this, and this? What was your last sign on bonus? How would you position this? Because I want to make sure that my market value is comparable to my white man work husband. Okay.

Brandon 30:55

And in the in the circle that she's cultivated is not based upon competition.

Jessica 31:00

Right.

Brandon 31:01

None of them are trying to compete with each other. It's genuinely trying to help each other be the best version that they can be when it comes to, you know, career and their uh growth in their career. Yeah.

Jessica 31:13

And like I said, we're just trying to help each other.

Brandon 31:16

Like her quote unquote work husband. Like, I appreciate the insight that he has and that he provides to just because I'm not in just an industry. I've never worked in that industry. So I cannot give her any type of advice in that standpoint. Yeah. And so it's helpful that he's able to say, hey, you know, as a white man in this industry, this is what I'm getting. And then, you know, I think you should ask for this. It's extremely helpful.

Jessica 31:37

Yeah. And I mean, we were talking, he was like, Oh, I never don't ask for a sign-on bonus. And here's how I position it, right? So, um, and I have other friends, you know, where we're always talking about what is what was our W-2, what was our stock, what was our bonus. You just need to have those conversations. And the the reality is, is wealthy people have these conversations. They're talking about the latest and greatest deal. They're talking about the better interest rate that they got from this banker versus that banker. They're talking about how their deals are structured. That is how you build wealth. You cannot build wealth in a tunnel isolated when you don't have the information, right? Because then you don't have anything to compare it to. So have the conversations, figure it out in your circle, find out what the last thing was that, you know, one of your besties negotiated. Um, you know, when I talked to my friends about um, you know, negotiating severance, they were like, oh my gosh, we had no idea you could do that. Let me tell you, in this industry, I'm never not doing it again. Right. So you have to talk, you have to have the conversations.

Brandon 32:39

And I've literally, you know, started to cultivate a list of the things that, you know, I've learned from Jess for her going through it firsthand experience and been able to help clients with that as far as negotiating stuff.

Jessica 32:51

Yep, yep, exactly. And didn't one of your clients just negotiate like a $30,000 bump just by asking?

Brandon 33:00

I had a client literally probably about two weeks ago now, um, had gotten a job offer and she sent over the initial offer and we talked about it, and I was like, you know, maybe you should go ahead and actually, based upon, you know, doing some research, you should ask for this. Um, it was a bump. It was like a you know, a $30,000 bump in her um base pay. I think they doubled her. Yeah, they doubled her equity because we asked for we asked for more equity.

Jessica 33:25

Um you have to ask. Closed mouths don't get fed. I mean, I could say that literally on every episode. Closed mouths don't get get fed. Do not accept the first thing.

Brandon 33:33

That's the reality in these scenarios. I think people have a fear that when they first get the offer, that if they ask for more, they're gonna be like, we're just completely discend the offer.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

No, no, we're not you anymore. You ask for too much.

Brandon 33:44

I've never in my life heard of that happening. No. Simply all they do is if they're not gonna be able, if they're not gonna give you more, they're not able to, they're just gonna say, this is the best we can do. Right.

Jessica 33:53

Best and final. And then get and then guess what? I would still ask for something else. I would ask for an education stipend. I would ask for an extra week of PTO. I would ask for my phone bill to be covered, my uh uh internet to be covered. I would ask for, you know, if you're in a traveling role, I would say I want first class tickets for any flight over four hours. Like literally, y'all, if you need help in negotiating something, let me know. Just we will find something for you to negotiate. I mean, you Okay.

Brandon 34:23

I mean, you've had companies where like the base pay wasn't quite where you want to be, but you got several, several almost almost $100,000 worth of RSUs off of that. Like I said, you negotiated the uh her last job.

Jessica 34:37

Education stuff, education style. Yeah, like listen, ask for something. Just ask.

Brandon 34:44

Yeah, there's other ways to better the situation that aren't simply, you know, dollars in your income.

Know Your Worth And Next Steps

Jessica 34:51

Yeah, absolutely. So really this episode is is more of a discussion on like, does it pay to hop, which normally it does. There's also perks in staying, right? Again, I think it does depend on your season of life. But if you're gonna take anything away from today, it's make sure that you know what the industry currently is paying for your role, for your title, for your years of experience, for your education level. Even if you're doing a basic glass door search, even if you're asking Claude or asking Chat GPT, find out if what you are being paid is in market range. And if it is not, start a plan for negotiating with your current employer on how you can get your salary up so that it's at least in market range or spruce up that resume and start sending it to people and see if you can get interviews and offers that you could then bring back to your company. Or if you're realizing, man, I'm actually really underpaid, maybe it is time to look for something new. So know your worth always. That's what this episode is really about. Yes, yes. And if you have any questions for us at all, reach out. I'm always happy to talk about things you can negotiate. So send us an email, slide in our DMs, we can keep this conversation going. But uh hopefully this was helpful, food for thought, and we will talk to you next week. Don't forget, Benjamin Franklin said, an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid. Until next time.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Sugar Daddy Podcast go. Learn how to make the pockets grow. Find into freedom where we go. Smart investments, money flow.

Jessica 36:37

Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review, and share this episode with your friends, family, and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the Sugar Daddy Podcast. You can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our past the sugar segments at thesugardaddypodcast at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail to our Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Our content is intended to be used and must be used for informational purposes public. It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based upon your own personal circumstances. We should take independent financial advice from a license professional, take an example or infinitely research and verify any information you find in our pockets and which to rely upon, whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.