146: How ADHD is Draining Your Bank Account

The ADHD Money Question

Jessica 0:00

You've probably told yourself you are just bad with money, that you're irresponsible, that you just need more discipline. But what if it was never about the discipline? What if your brain was actually wired in a way that makes traditional money management feel like trying to swim upstream every single day? Today we are getting into something that does not get talked about enough in personal finance: ADHD and money, because the two are more connected than most people realize. And if you've ever missed a bill, even though you had the money, made an impulse purchase you immediately regretted, or started a budget 47 times and never stuck with it, this episode is for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Sugar Daddy Podcast Yo, learn how to make them pockets grow. Five minutes of freedoms where we go. Smart investments, money flow.

Welcome And Quick Disclaimer

Jessica 0:52

Hey everybody, welcome to the Sugar Daddy Podcast, the podcast that helps you create a clear plan with your money so that you can feel confident and in control about your money. Today we are talking about something really important. Babe, what are we talking about today?

Brandon 1:10

We are talking about ADHD and your money.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Yeah.

Brandon 1:15

And how, you know, the two intertwine and how it can be difficult to, you know, do the financial planning aspects if you are someone that does ADHD and really kind of just acknowledging that, you know, that is a hurdle you have to overcome and maybe some of the things that we can do to help overcome that.

Jessica 1:34

Yeah. And listen, if you are new here, welcome. We're so glad you're here. If you're an OG, welcome back. Then you already know we are not therapists. We are not licensed counselors. We have none of those credentials behind our names. So please, please, please take this episode with a grain of salt. Brandon is the licensed financial planner. I am just the amazing wife.

Brandon 1:58

Um you are more than just an amazing wife.

Jessica 2:01

Well, thank you. But we are not therapists. So you do need to know that. Um, but there is enough information out there now about ADHD, and we're even seeing it with our own children. Um, and I'm kind of looking at it for myself because I'm like, do I have ADHD? And I think one of the things that's important is we used to have this picture of ADHD. And I'm a former teacher, and you would hear about what ADHD is, and you would just pick get this picture of like boys jumping up and down and like bouncing off the walls.

Brandon 2:32

Like, oh, squirrel ball.

Jessica 2:34

Right, exactly. And just like that hyper activity. But I think, you know, now we know so much more about ADHD and more importantly, how it manifests differently between boys and girls, men and women. And so we are going to talk a little bit about that today. Um, but definitely wanted to make sure that you know that we are not therapists. And this does not replace any kind of therapy or counseling that you might need to medication. Or medication. Yeah, none of that. Okay.

Executive Function And Financial Stress

Jessica 3:05

Um so ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is a neurodevelopmental condition that affects how the brain regulates attention, impulse control, and executive function. And that last one, the executive function piece, that's where we might run into some trouble when it comes to money, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah.

Jessica 3:29

So the executive function is basically the brain's project manager. So planning ahead, starting tasks, managing time, resisting impulses, that's where ADHD impairs that portion of how your system, your brain system is functioning. So when you're thinking about things like budgeting, saving, avoiding impulse spending, uh, you know, paying bills on time, those kind of basic day-to-day things, that is where if you have ADHD, you could struggle.

Brandon 4:03

Oh, 100%, because as you kind of stated earlier, I think the picture that was always painted to us of what ADHD is and how it presents was one very singular idea. Totally. Whereas now that we have more information, more research, we know that it presents in so many other different ways.

Jessica 4:21

Yeah.

Brandon 4:21

And that, you know, a lot of people that as children had ADHD but weren't diagnosed because they didn't present in no stereotypical way that we were thought to believe when we were children, are now starting to maybe realize that, hey, I actually do have ADHD, and now I know why I've had, you know, a little bit, I've struggled with this or I've had issues with this, because I was undiagnosed for so many years.

Jessica 4:43

Or you grew up in a house, let me just call it what it is, with a black dad andor immigrant parents that literally just didn't believe that it was real. Because I knew, not to out my brother, but I know he'd be fine with this. I knew my brother had ADHD. He knew that he had ADHD. You know who did not recognize his ADHD? My dad did not ever acknowledge andor recognize. And you know what he would say? He would say things like, Well, he sure can concentrate on those video games when he wants to. And it's like, that's not what it is. So if you had a dismissive parent, because again, we are elder millennials, so you know, we came up in the 80s and 90s. If you had a parent that just simply was like, this is not real, you're making excuses.

Brandon 5:33

I mean, my brother had ADD. He was diagnosed with ADD growing up and he had taken medication during that time period to help out with that. But like I said, like I also recognized during that time period looking back, like he didn't present as you would think other people were because he's a quiet introvert. Exactly.

Jessica 5:49

And he's not the hyperactive.

Brandon 5:51

He was not a hyper, yeah.

Jessica 5:52

Yeah. Well, and even to this day, your mom will say things like, Well, Marcus is, you know, is ADD. And I'm like, no, he has it. So even like those little things, it's like, no, this is not who you are as a person. This is something that you have, and it's something that you can choose to manage or, you know, put tools in place and systems in place to help you manage and overcome. It's not who you are. So even that language, I think from our parents has has changed. And I have to even remind the older people in our families like, no, no, it's not something they are, it's something they have, you know? So yeah. Okay. So it's really important to, you know, understand how it can show up. Um, and then also just, you know, high-level research shows that people who have ADHD, they're significantly more likely to carry credit card debt, have lower savings rate, report financial stress. And then the more you dive in, it's again, it's not because you don't want to. It might not be because you didn't have the money and you couldn't pay the bills. It's because you don't have systems in place to help you manage when to pay the bills, when to open the bills, when to, you know, start going through that pile of mail on your desk, those types of things.

Brandon 7:14

And this goes back to the, you know, part of financial planning words, understanding who you are as a person.

Jessica 7:22

Yeah.

Brandon 7:22

And, you know, what is your personality like? What are some of the hurdles, such as, you know, having ADHD that you have to deal with, and then understanding that, accepting it, and then putting systems in place to help you overcome those hurdles. Because we all have them, yeah, whether it's ADHD or something else. But it's like I said, it's being real with who you are as who who you are as a person.

Jessica 7:43

Yeah.

Brandon 7:44

And then moving forward

How ADHD Looks In Men Women

Brandon 7:45

from there.

Jessica 7:45

Also recognizing that most research was historically done on men, on boys.

Brandon 7:52

I'm gonna say probably most research was done on white men also. I don't know. I mean, probably I don't say that I don't I don't know. Is there any but probably did you find any like did you find anything that maybe ADHD presents different in the No, no, I I strictly focused on gender.

Jessica 8:06

Um, I did not go into like race or ethnicity.

Brandon 8:09

But it's like uh basically I you know, as an adult now finding out that basically everything from a research standpoint within you know the physiology of the human being, it's all done on men. It's always done on men and no variety.

Jessica 8:21

So even then, like the research that is now starting to come out for women is still much more limited because it's you know much newer, exactly. So it it is fascinating.

Brandon 8:32

It's interesting. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but like I can't, I don't recall knowing any women. I mean, you know, well when we're children, girls that were diagnosed with ADHD. No. Like I knew tons of guys.

Jessica 8:44

Yes, yeah.

Brandon 8:45

But I didn't know any women that were diagnosed.

Jessica 8:47

Right. Well, and it's so interesting because again, as a former school teacher, you you had the diagnosis for the boys, like you just said, and then for the girls, it's like, oh, well, she just has a hard time staying on task, or she just this or she just that. And it was never a formal diagnosis, not even like a question of like, should we have her tested? What other things can we put in place? Like, if anything, it was the teacher trying to, you know, help again put system structure in place to help them stay on task or, you know, overcome whatever the barriers were, but never any anything further than that.

Brandon 9:20

Yeah, which is interesting because, you know, we believe that our daughter maybe has some form of ADHD. We haven't had her formally tested. And there's a reason for a reason why we haven't had her formally tested, but we definitely recognize things about her everyday behavior. Totally. That definitely lean towards that.

Jessica 9:38

Yeah. And because historically all the testing was done on men, we have this like very vivid picture of what it is, right? Boys bounce bouncing off the wall, that kind of thing. But there's so much more and it presents so much differently. So um, before we get into how we can help manage this, let's talk about what it could present as in in men versus women. So in men, it's most likely going to present, and again, there's always outliers, there's always exceptions to the rule. And again, we are not licensed therapists, but it's more likely to present as hyperactivity and those external or visible symptoms, right? So maybe some impulsivity, gambling, spontaneous large purchases, overspending on hobbies and experiences. Um, they might hyperfocus on income-producing activities. So if you're thinking about, and again, I as I'm reading through this, I like totally have my brother in in my head. Um, but you know, that entrepreneurial side hustle type spirit where you are so hyper focused on one thing that you might be neglecting, you know, the maintenance of bills and saving and budgeting and long-term retirement savings.

Brandon 10:56

Um, luckily your voter doesn't have that issue. Right.

Jessica 10:59

Um, you know, boys and men are much more likely to be diagnosed, diagnosed earlier in life, which means that you might have more of an opportunity to understand how to overcome and put systems and processes in place to help with that diagnosis. Um, and then that risk-taking tendency is a double-edged sword, right? Like it could be really great in entrepreneurial pursuits, but it could be dangerous if you're talking about like investing without a plan or you know, I mean, again, my brother has definitely sent us like, oh, this is gonna be the next big opportunity. Like, this is so exciting. Go put all your money in this. And then you start digging in and you're like, yeah, you have fun with that, but we're gonna pass. Thanks. So it shows up in different ways. So, and then for women, um, it's more likely to present with more of like that inattentive type of behavior. So disorganization, forgetfulness, difficulty prioritizing, internal restlessness. Um, women with ADHD are more likely to mask or internalize. So they end up developing coping mech mechanisms that might hide the struggle from others, or sometimes they might even be trying to hide it from themselves, um, which we've we've definitely seen that even in our own house.

Brandon 12:15

As you were reading through how it presents, I was like, Yeah, check, check, check. Check, check for our daughter.

Jessica 12:20

Um, the financial impact often can show up as avoidance. So thinking about those unopened bills, maybe unfiled taxes, ignored account statements. And again, it's not because they don't care, but it's because it it becomes overwhelming and then it becomes paralyzing. Um, often women are diagnosed much later, so then, or not until adulthood. I actually know several people who are like, oh, all of this makes sense. And I'm now 38 years old and I just got an ADHD diagnosis. Now it all makes sense. Um, and so sometimes it shows up after like a major life event, like a divorce or a job loss, um, or becoming a parent where you realize, oh my gosh, like this this is becoming unmanageable. Like I need some support. Um, and of course, because we're women, then we have higher rates of shame and self-blame, which ends up creating the cycle of avoidance, which then leads to bigger problems. And it's just this like loop that women can end up being on. But what to look for, you know, I think is really, really important to start off with. Did you want to add something?

Brandon 13:28

No, I'm just like I said, like, as you're obviously rooting through those things, I'm thinking about like our daughter in regards to like it's very interesting, like the difference between men and women, as far as like men were like, oh, there's a reason for why I'm doing this.

Jessica 13:41

Yeah, you guys will always blame somebody else and external factors.

Brandon 13:44

And women, like, even when for sometimes presented with an alternative reason for why something like they still gonna internalize it and put the blame on themselves.

Jessica 13:51

Yeah, always. I mean, we do that in business too, right? If like a man flops a project, it's like, oh, well, this team didn't do this and this didn't do that, and this didn't go right. And a woman's like, oh my gosh, I suck at life.

Brandon 14:04

Yeah, because even with like, you know, our daughter, it's like, you know, we're um, she has a hard time staying on task like when getting ready in the morning. And we're like, baby girl, it's okay. You know, we we know why this is happening. We just have to work on ways to, you know, move it along so that you stay on task. And she just gets upset and internalizes everything and is angry. And I'm like, it's not a big deal at this point in time. We're gonna work on this.

Jessica 14:26

Which is like hard, you know, especially when it's like Monday through Friday in the morning, and like we do actually have limited time to get things done. But um, you know, from the outside in, especially with women and and girls, it can often look like somebody just doesn't care or they're apathetic. But internally, there's so much going on and they are feeling so much overwhelm and shame. And I think that that, you know, my heart breaks, especially again, you know, because I I'm I'm pretty sure if we had her diagnosed that she would get an ADHD diagnosis. Um but even, you know, with with some of your clients, you're like, yeah, we need to just go ahead and schedule the meeting to do the thing, right? To fill out the paperwork, to fill out the form, to move the money, to, and it's because you know that they're not going to do it on their own. And it's not because they don't want to, or because they're not motivated, or because, you know, they don't think it's important, but because they literally just have a barrier that is going to prevent them from getting it done between this meeting and the next meeting.

Brandon 15:29

Yeah. And that's and that's come through, you know, years of doing this and really starting to understand like all the different needs that people have depending on who they are, and really understanding, you know, up front and saying, hey, like, I need to understand who you are as a person. Yeah. Because understanding who you are.

Jessica 15:46

I say that so often.

Brandon 15:47

Well, I need to understand how you are because how I work with one client on how I work with you know, how I work with 10 clients might not work for this one client over here. So like I really want to understand who you are, what are your needs, and be very honest about it. Say, like, I want to meet you where you're at. I'm not trying to get you to meet me where I'm at.

Jessica 16:04

Yeah.

Brandon 16:04

Because, like you said, like there's some clients where I can like give them a list of 10 things to do, and I know this, and they're gonna be like boom, boom, boom, and check it off, do it easy on their own. Where there's other people, if I did the same thing, they're not gonna get anything, any of that done. And like you said, it's not because they don't want to get it done, it's because they see a list, it becomes overwhelming, and then they don't do anything.

Jessica 16:25

And then they just tap out.

Brandon 16:26

Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, hey, let's just schedule an hour meeting where we're not talking about anything new, we're just tackling this this way. Yeah, and like as I said, like that's perfectly fine. As like, and that's why I say it's you also need to find the person that works for you because there's some advisors that don't want to work like that, yeah, and they're not gonna take that extra step. So, you know, knowing you are as a person, knowing what your needs are, and then if you're gonna you know work with someone, finding someone that is going to work with your specific needs.

Jessica 16:58

Well, I was actually also gonna make a quick call out that you are a fee-based advisor. Again, for anybody new that's listening, so you don't do assets under management, you do here's a fixed amount for the year and monthly payments. What what you just said, I think is really interesting because for those people that do need more support and just getting through some of those tasks, because a lot of what you do is task based, right? You need to send me this statement, open this account, do you know, like there are things that just have to get done before you can move the needle. But because you're fee-based, there are clients who take you up on, like, yeah, let's schedule the time and like let's do another Zoom call and let's just do it together.

Brandon 17:40

Yeah.

Jessica 17:41

And it's not something that you're charging extra for.

Brandon 17:43

No, you know, so I think that that's part of the it's part of the full planning process.

Jessica 17:49

Yeah. And I think it's important what you said about people knowing who they are, because I think sometimes people, especially when it comes to finances, aside from the fact that like this is not what we were taught. Nobody, you know, unless you took finance in school or economics or you have a, you know, business or accounting degree, none of us took this in our regular ed classes. Most of us did not have this in K through 12 education. So like we're already starting from a very, very low bar. Most of us did not learn about this from our families. So, like, we're starting from zero, right? And then you have these feelings of like, well, why am I bad with money? Why is this not working? Why can't I be better? And so you know that you're struggling, but you don't quite know why or what to call it. And so we're gonna name some of the most common kind of money patterns.

The Most Common ADHD Money Patterns

Jessica 18:40

I don't want to call them mistakes, but money patterns that people struggle with, whether you have ADHD or not, but especially if you if you do have ADHD. So you're gonna give a couple of examples so that you um, you know, feel seen. I think that's important.

Brandon 18:55

Yeah, I think it's it's that's a huge point is to feel seen and know that it's not just you.

Jessica 19:00

It's not just you. No. Have you because I I've had people text me, right? And it's very clear that they feel embarrassed, they feel behind, and they'll say, Well, you know, will Brandon work with somebody like me? I don't, I don't know very much about this, or I know I don't have as much money as the next person. Have you ever worked with somebody who has been so unique and so different than anybody else?

Brandon 19:31

No, a lot of the same, like uh, I mean, a lot of the you know, high-level goals are gonna be the same, a lot of the fears are the same. Um, a lot of you know the level of financial literacy is the same because like, you know, I mean, I have I have people that I consider significantly smarter than me, you know, surgeons and you know, lawyers and everything like that, like things where you went to school for many years in order to um obtain the credentials and the knowledge to do what you do, and they don't know, you know, basic quote unquote basic things within finance. Yeah.

Jessica 20:05

Well, that's on their field.

Brandon 20:06

Yeah, because most people don't.

Jessica 20:07

And it's so well, and all that to say, like you think that you're coming to Brandon as like this poor sad person that doesn't know anything and has done everything wrong, but like, no, you're not.

Brandon 20:19

No, you're I mean, most people that come to me are it's uh like I said, I've never had somebody come to me and I'm like, oh my God, like you are this, you know, the point zero zero zero one percent of like I've never seen this issue before. No. Most of the time, same, you know, same same scenario, different package. Exactly.

Jessica 20:35

Yeah, totally. Okay, so let's get into some of these things that may or may not feel familiar to you. But I think uh one big one is the impulse kind of purchase spiral where you're seeking that dopamine hit, and that you know, maybe is driving that spontaneous spending. So the purchase feels really great in the moment. You get that high that you needed, and then you immediately regret it, or that thing that you just bought, you know, still has a tag on it in the closet or gets shoved in some drawer and you never look at it again. And so that can happen in response to being bored, being stressed, having some sort of other emotional dysregulation, but you're spending money without a clear plan or thought behind it.

Brandon 21:19

Yeah, I've never done that.

Jessica 21:22

You, Mr. I overanalyze everything. Yeah. Um, bill blindness, so not opening mail, ignoring notifications, forgetting due dates. And again, it's not necessarily because the money isn't there, but because the task creates anxiety.

Brandon 21:37

Yeah, that's that's the interesting part there because there's a lot of people that do the bill blindness, but they don't have the money.

Jessica 21:44

Right.

Brandon 21:44

So you know Which that makes sense.

Jessica 21:46

It's like I'm not gonna look at this because I can't pay it anyway.

Brandon 21:49

But to have the money to handle it, but you're still not looking at it and taking care of it, yes. That is That's a problem.

Jessica 21:56

Yeah. Um, and then of course, like it makes things worse because If you're not paying bills on time, then you're going to have the late fees. You could be damaging your credit in the pot the process. And it's compounding those problems. So then another month passes and now you don't definitely don't want to open the mail. And another month passes and just it keeps snowballing.

Brandon 22:15

Yeah, because it's it's a problem that could have been avoided by understanding the specific needs that you have.

Jessica 22:21

Yeah. Yeah. Another thing, um, and I've I've seen this in some of my friends, that feast or famine spending where you have hyper-focused financial discipline for a really short period of time, followed by just like complete collapse and chaos. So, like it's an all or nothing. You're either completely perfect or the wheels are completely off the train. Um, and this is why traditional budgeting apps often fail for people with ADHD. And if there is an app out there for people specifically focused on on people with ADHD or neurodivergence, let me know because we can put in the show notes. And if there's not, like, listen, I I just think I came up with an idea because I think it's important.

Brandon 23:05

I also, it's important to point out with budgeting apps is that they are just a one piece.

Jessica 23:11

Yeah.

Brandon 23:12

And it's not like, oh, I have a support tool. It's not, oh, I have a budgeting app, everything's good now because you have to the budgeting app is not going to necessarily facilitate you building the habits of using it properly.

Jessica 23:23

Yeah. So true. Um, another one is just uh the interest problem and not interest as in like compounding interest, but like the ability to actively stay engaged on one thing. Um, and I think that that is, you know.

Brandon 23:40

I've seen that with people.

Jessica 23:42

Yeah, explain. What have you seen?

Brandon 23:44

It's having it's like you're sitting in a meeting, you're trying to have an important conversation about one specific topic. It's not as if you're jumping around a variety of things, and you can actively see the person is not engaged. Like I can see it. And I don't think it's due to it's not intentional.

Jessica 24:00

Yeah, exactly. It's not intentional.

Brandon 24:02

It's not trying to be rude. It's just that they're unintentionally not engaged in a conversation that's very important because it's also your life, not mine.

Jessica 24:11

Well, and maybe because a lot of what you do is long-term planning, long-term goal setting. Like you're not gonna wake up and become a millionaire tomorrow because you invested in the S P 500, right? So I think too.

Brandon 24:24

If I could do that, I wouldn't be working. Right.

Jessica 24:26

I wouldn't have any clients because that's but maybe the reward is too far away, right? And it then your brain is like, yeah, we don't need to focus on this right now.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Yeah.

Jessica 24:34

Yeah. So I think that that that's something that's really interesting. And also, and I don't know, I don't have the research on this, but I'm assuming, you know, if you are having a hard time planning for the future because the reward is so far away, then you're probably not going to be investing unless it's that spontaneous, oh, this sounds like a great idea and I'm gonna the dopamine hit and I'm gonna invest, but not that long-term, slow growth, we need 20 or 30 years to get to where we want to go, type investing. So if you are, I don't want to say lacking the interest, but like if you are having a hard time staying engaged and interested, that can compound into other problems as well. Yeah. Um, income inconsistency. So many with uh people with ADHD gravitate towards self-employment, entrepreneurship, freelancing, commission-based work, um, which matches their need for stimulation and autonomy. Again, thinking of my brother, but it creates variable income, which is something I talk to my brother about all the time. And I think too, you are an entrepreneur for different reasons, not because you have ADHD.

Brandon 25:46

I I kind of fell into it. It wasn't like I sit out.

Jessica 25:50

But now that you have worked for yourself, could you go back and work for somebody else?

Brandon 25:55

They're gonna pay me.

Jessica 25:56

I think the answer is no. I think you would really, really struggle. Whereas I like in my deep down heart of hearts, I'm like, yes, let's be content creators, let's be full-time podcasters, like let's do all the things. But I also am like, no, but I really like consistency. I really like a a bi-weekly paycheck, I really like my 401k match, you know, like I like those things, even though those aren't secure, and like we've openly talked about that on the podcast, but like incon in income inconsistency really stresses me out. It just really does. Like, even if we were like, yeah, we made $200,000 last month, amazing, I would still be stressed, even though that would be like it's gonna come next month, right? Exactly. So even though like next month it could be like, yeah, we made $5,000, okay, great, but it wasn't $200,000. So now I'm stressed and anxious. So that doesn't work for me. Um, and then the last one we have is that analysis paralysis on big decisions. You talk about this a lot, but it's really just that overwhelmed feeling of making financial decisions, which account, which fund, which credit card. Like I have friends that are like, oh yeah, I still haven't opened that high yield savings account because I didn't know which one to pick. When I've clearly said, don't spend more than five minutes on this, yeah. Picking one and making the quote unquote wrong decision or missing out on 0.05%, like 3% versus 3.5%. It's not gonna matter in the long run. Like pick an account. What's gonna matter is the fact that you're still earning no interest in your Bank of America savings account.

Brandon 27:26

And that's gonna be a big part of like having some mind that can help you one, narrow down the choices, the options that you have. Yeah. And then also making it clear to you, hey, these are all viable good options.

Jessica 27:36

So you're not gonna go bad by choosing in action is the bad option. Yes.

Brandon 27:40

Because when you think that you're not making a choice, you are actually actually making a choice. By not making a decision, you made a decision.

Jessica 27:46

Yes. And and just to be clear, it's not because you're lazy, it's not laziness. It's just genuinely your brain cannot prioritize, and everything either feels equally urgent, which then kind of snowballs into like, I can't do this because I can't make a decision, right? So the decision sits unmade for months.

Brandon 28:05

I would say a majority of people that come to me, you know, looking to have help, they're not lazy people. They're not lazy. No. And then the things that they're the decision that they haven't made, the plan that they haven't done has nothing to do with their work ethic, and it has nothing to do with, you know, they're because they're not lazy people.

Jessica 28:21

No.

Brandon 28:22

It's the unknown and the inability to make a decision because you have unknown.

Jessica 28:26

Oh, I I mean, I will say right off the bat, like, my brother is one of the hardest working people I've ever met. Like he he it is not a lack of want, it is not a laziness, it is it is none of those things. And I do think that he has found ways to help him get the things done that need to get done, right? And to start focusing in on the things that bring him true joy and income and the things that he can outsource. And so let's just let's roll right into like now we know what to look for, how it might be showing up in men versus

Automate Bills And Build A Routine

Jessica 28:59

women. Let's give people some things that they can put into place to actually help. So the the goal here is not to fix anything because you're not broken. The goal is to build a financial life that works with how your brain already operates. So we're not fighting the biology because this really is biology.

Brandon 29:18

Oh, yeah.

Jessica 29:19

This is how you were born. I can look at our daughter.

Brandon 29:21

Don't get rid of ADHD. You learn how to manage it.

Jessica 29:24

Exactly. So we're gonna design a system around how your brain was created so that you can find success.

Brandon 29:32

Yes.

Jessica 29:32

Yeah. So what's tip number one, babe?

Brandon 29:34

Tip number one is automate everything that you possibly can. And I am a big advocate of this for everybody. I think that's a good thing. Whether you have ADHD or not, this makes your life so much easier because it takes away one extra decision that you have to make on a consistent basis.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Yes.

Brandon 29:52

So, like the easiest one is like, hey, if I decide that I'm gonna save this certain amount of money into my high-you savings account on a monthly basis, automate that saving rather than manually making the transfer each month.

Jessica 30:04

Right. I think even, I mean, for us, right? Like our investments are automated. If you are getting a 401k match, that is that is an automation. Yes. That is you automatically investing every single month. So you might not be thinking about it like that, but that is what you're doing. You can do the same thing with a portion of your paycheck every single time you get paid. 2%, 5%, 10%, whatever you can afford, automatically have that taken out so you never even see it. And if you don't see it, you don't miss it. Yeah. Automate.

Brandon 30:33

Like I don't have ADHD and I automate everything.

Jessica 30:37

Everything.

Brandon 30:38

Anything and everything in my life that I can automate. Yeah, I'm all for that. Yeah. But like I said, it just also like just think about the idea of just forgetting stuff. Like oh my gosh, our lives so much easier.

Jessica 30:50

Our lives are way too busy to do everything manually. And I I'm thinking of some friends, and I'm like, oh my gosh, that would be exhausting. Yeah. Like, yeah, it's just it's too much. You gotta automate it. So set up automatic bill pay for your fixed expenses, your rent, your mortgage, utilities, subscriptions, minimum debt payments, HOAs, whatever it is, if you can get it off of your plate, like we check the mail, what, once every three weeks?

Brandon 31:18

Yeah.

Jessica 31:19

Because ain't nothing in the mail.

Brandon 31:20

Because everything's automated.

Jessica 31:21

Yeah, ain't nothing in the mail that I need to actively be responding to. You know, so automate what you can. Your retirement contributions, transfers to savings on payday, move the money before you see it, you know, automatic investments, everything automated. Definitely number one. All right, number two is build a money routine, not a budget, because sometimes words matter and the word budget stresses people out, sometimes makes them shut down. So for people who have ADHD, especially, the tradition the traditional budget model is kind of setting you up to fail because you have to really focus and hone in, right? And we we've already talked about how that might not be conducive. So instead of a budget, we're gonna talk about a money routine, something that you do at the same time in the same way every single week.

Brandon 32:11

And I think this is also important to point out that these tips can kind of stack upon each other. Yeah.

Jessica 32:16

So habit stacking.

Brandon 32:18

Yes. So for example, with the you know, building a money routine, part of building a money routine is having automations in place so that you can spend less time, you know, monitoring everything.

Jessica 32:28

Yes. So pick one day a week. You can call it your money date, whether you're single or you know, in a partnership and as a couple, and and spend 15 minutes max. One thing that we've been doing, um, and it works very well when we do it, and then we try to let her undo it, but we have a timer in every part of our house. Well, we we have our Alexa, but we also literally have physical timers that she can pick up and walk with. So if I say you have 15 minutes in in the bathroom to shower, brush your teeth, get lotioned, put on jammies, whatever, like you are actively watching that clock. Or, you know, here, set a timer for brushing your teeth, set a timer for literally anything. You know, hey, focus on your math homework for 20 minutes. That's it. And once that timer goes off, you can walk away. You can do the same thing for your money date. So set a timer, 15 minutes, check your balances, review what came in, open a couple pieces of mail, flag anything that needs attention, and keep it short and non-negotiable. So 15 minutes, focus. You know, we're not asking you to sit down for three hours.

Brandon 33:34

Yeah, and honestly, I think keeping that limited time frame works well for a lot of people because I would say, unless you're the outlier when it comes to finance, it's not necessarily the topic that you're thrilled about. Right. So, you know, being hyper focused for a shorter period of time, I think would be more beneficial for most people in general.

Jessica 33:51

Yeah. And you can pair that with something that you're gonna enjoy, right? A good cup of coffee in the morning, your favorite playlist, sitting outside listening to the birds, don't let them distract you. But looking at it as more of a reward than a chore, you know, and getting your mind right. So again, habit stacking, especially for those of you with ADHD brains, it's a new behavior, but like put it with something that you already enjoy doing so that your brain isn't automatically shutting down before you even get started. What's number three?

Brandon 34:22

Uh, tip number three is simplifying your account structure. Now, I always have sometimes with my clients where I'm like, do you want the most optimized or do you want the most simple?

Jessica 34:35

Oh, what do you mean?

Brandon 34:37

Well, because optimized could be, you know, optimized from a financial gain standpoint.

Jessica 34:43

Oh, okay.

Brandon 34:43

So therefore could have multiple accounts, which is their goal is to, you know, accrue the most amount of money.

Jessica 34:49

Okay.

Brandon 34:49

Whereas some people's plan, you know, goal is to obviously they want to accrue some money, but their main focus is to simplify things in their life, to make things easier.

Jessica 34:58

Yeah, yeah. Like you don't need six checking accounts.

Brandon 35:00

Yeah. Because, like, for example, like there could be like there could be an investment strategy that takes a lot more effort and is a lot more um yield a higher um amount in the end, but it's also a lot more work on their end and their day-to-day life. And that's not my that might not be what they're looking for. I mean, I have a client in my mind now where we've done, we've been working together for years, and I always, you know, when we have our routine meetings, I'm like, you know, you've optimized a lot of things in regards to what we can currently do. Um, if you want to take it a step further, it's gonna take more effort on my end and also more effort on your end. Do you want that or do you prefer the simplicity that you have set up set up right now?

Jessica 35:38

Oh, and what is shoe cheese?

Brandon 35:39

As of right now, it's simplicity. Because it's also the season of life that you're in. Yes, yes, season of life that she's in right now. Simplicity, it's 100% where she should be going.

Jessica 35:47

Okay, okay. I like that. So, ways to simplify whatever is happening in your life. So, like if you have variable income, you could have like a two-account system where one account is holding all of your income and then an operating account where you move your money as you need it. But you you don't, you're not managing, you know, 10 different accounts type thing.

Brandon 36:11

Yeah, it could even be to the point of like, you know, if you haven't taken the time and you've switched jobs multiple times and you have four, you know, four three 401k plans that form employers, uh simplifying your account structure, roll those three former 401k plans into one IRA. Makes it easier for you to look at and monitor rather than having three separate accounts to look at.

Jessica 36:27

Which wouldn't you recommend that anyway?

Brandon 36:28

I would recommend that anyways, but that's just one aspect of like how you can simplify your account structure to make your life easier.

Jessica 36:34

Yeah, okay, got it. Um, some people might even need to go as far as having like that physical cash envelope system uh where you I hear that. Well, like if you tend to overspend, then it's like here, I have a hundred dollars for groceries, and then I go to the grocery store with my hundred dollar envelope, and that is what I have.

Brandon 36:55

So here's my only pushback in that scenario is that one of the benefits of being more digital is it's an easier for you to track.

Jessica 37:03

Sure.

Brandon 37:03

So if you're going to be safer, obviously. But also, but if you're gonna be the person that's doing the cash method, that's gonna add an extra um tax for you to track where your cash is going now. Rather than, for example, if you use your credit card or you know, if you're using a debit card, but you're using a credit card and you're able to see where your purchases are, you're able to connect that to a budgeting app and have that information already synced in without you having to do an extra an extra lifting. Yeah. Whereas at the cash, now you have an extra lift because you need to track where all the money, the cash is that you're spending, keep track of those receipts, write it down, spreadsheet, whatever maybe.

Jessica 37:38

That's only so I guess you have to decide like what's better, not overspending and not having visibility or but also but but it's not even that because you also have to be realistic in the like that the concept of it from a high-level view makes sense in certain aspects.

Brandon 37:52

But also you have to look at the world we live in.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yeah.

Brandon 37:54

Do live in the cash world, but there are plenty of places where you cannot even go and spend cash. That's they are no longer taking cash. So you have to be realistic in the world that you're living in, also.

Jessica 38:01

Yeah. Well, I was saying for like groceries or things like that, but yeah.

Brandon 38:04

There are some places that don't take cash.

Jessica 38:07

Okay, okay. Um, all right.

Simplify Accounts And Track Visually

Jessica 38:09

Tip number four is to make the invisible visible. So if you are avoiding something and it's one of those like out-of-sight, out-of-mind scenarios, then you need to make things visible. So put your savings goal on a sticky note, on your mirror, on your laptop, use a visual debt tracker, a simple bar or thermometer chart showing your balance going down works incredibly well. Um, I would even say just not even for people who have ADHD, but just people who like to visualize. Like, yeah.

Brandon 38:44

100%. Because I told you with a few of my clients, um, simply having them set up monarch accounts and being able to see clearly in green, this is the income I have coming in. In red, these are the expenses going out. Yeah. And then is there a delta or is there, you know, um, am I overspending? Simply seeing that from a visible a visibility a visibility standpoint completely changed everything for them. Just that one simple change.

Jessica 39:11

Well, or people use habit trackers, right? Every day that you work out or you walk through miles, or you get your 10,000 steps, you get a star, you get a smiley face. Like people want that I track all my workouts. Yeah. Like people need, you know, that visual reinforcement of I did this well today. I I hit that goal today.

Brandon 39:30

Seeing all three rings close in my Apple Watch.

Jessica 39:33

Yeah. I mean, I think the rings are aggressive in the way it talks to you, but you know, like I don't, that's why I don't have any audio.

Brandon 39:38

I just see them close.

Jessica 39:39

Yeah. So those are, you know, you might already be using those in your day-to-day. You can use them for your finances as well. Um, setting a calendar reminder for all of your due dates for your financial tasks. I don't know about you. Uh, if it's not written down, it does not exist. Uh, my cannot rely on my memory.

Brandon 39:59

We I I mean, I use a calendar for everything from everything. The stuff between, you know, with us and the family to tasks for clients, emails to send out. I have a calendar for everything.

Jessica 40:08

Yes, uh, absolutely cannot rely on memory. And if you can, good for you. But this episode is about ADHD, so you probably can't. And I don't have ADHD, and I can't. Um, and if you have a partner, you know, build in a quick monthly money check-in. Again, 15, 20 minutes, verbal accountability, verbal pats on the back, you know, hey, we did this really well. We're under budget, we invested, we saved, um, you know, all of those things. And then I I really like the net worth tracker, which again, Monarch will very easily do for you if your accounts are in there. But seeing that number go up month over month is very uh inspiring and encouraging to me.

Brandon 40:46

I love it when um I'm first working, like a new client's coming on, and I could see from like the conversation we've had, the variety of the various information they've sent me that I'm like, they're doing a lot of things right, but they don't feel that way. And once we're able to put it into Monarch and they're able to see everything, I'm like, hey, did you guys know that you're doing this well? Did you know that you're a millionaire already? It doesn't feel like it, but you are you've a net worth of over a million dollars.

Jessica 41:11

Yeah. Ooh, how fun that you get to have those conversations. Yeah. Um, so yeah, we will link Monarch again. You can get 50% off your first year. It's a great tool, super easy to set up, and it gives you that visibility. This Monarch actually checks a lot of these boxes. 100%, you know, which is great. Uh tip number five is designing the environment to reduce temptation.

Reduce Temptation In The Digital Age

Jessica 41:33

I think this one, especially in the digital age that we're in, is really important. I've been doing this for the past year, but thinking about things like deleting the shopping apps on your phone, deleting the credit card, you know, from the app that's already pre-programmed. So you're laying in bed and you're just shopping and scrolling.

Brandon 41:51

Well, you can actually mainly put your card in the show.

Jessica 41:53

Yeah, if you yeah, if you don't know your card information by memory, or you have to like get out of bed, go downstairs, go grab your wallet. You might not buy that thing that you were gonna just click on and buy because everything was already stored in your your digital wallet. Um, unsubscribing from emails, that is huge. I listen, I don't want another single email in my entire life. So I'm unsubscribing from everything that I can. But like there is a sale every single day. I don't care what holiday is coming up, I don't care what day of the week it is, there's a sale. You don't need to hear about it because 90% of what we're buying, we probably don't need.

Brandon 42:29

Yeah. Uh I don't, you know me. I I overthink this. I'm like on the far off.

Jessica 42:34

You're on yeah, yeah. We're not talking to you.

Brandon 42:35

I have my own problems.

Jessica 42:36

Um, I think putting things in your cart, I do this myself as well. Um, putting things in your cart and letting it sit there for 48 hours and then deciding two days later, is this still something that I want? Is this still something that I need? That is huge. I mean, again, we've all seen the memes, right? My the Amazon save for later cart is up to $2 million.

Brandon 42:58

I I've never I don't ever do that. That's interesting.

Jessica 43:01

Oh, mine probably has 300 items in it.

Brandon 43:03

Oh, geez.

Jessica 43:04

Really? You don't have anything in your save for later cart?

Brandon 43:06

Oh, save for later? Like things that I like. Oh, yeah, I save things for later. I thought I'm like an advantage.

Jessica 43:10

No, no, no. Save for later in your Amazon cart.

Brandon 43:13

Yeah, I mean, I I save things there all the time that I don't even like. I probably have no intention of going back to. Honestly, I actually save a lot of things from like, oh, maybe just might like this.

Jessica 43:21

Oh, well, that's good. That's nice to know. But again, even just giving yourself a 48-hour window to revisit, that's gonna take that like impulse, that spontaneity, that dopamine hit that you're just really trying to get just out of the picture completely, you know. Um use browser extensions that block one click purchasing, add purchase confirmation steps, like you know, do anything you can to remove the ease, the ease of buying stuff. Yes. Yeah, delete the apps, unsubscribe, all the things. Definitely do that. And what is our Last tip, tip number six, babe.

When A Financial Pro Helps

Brandon 44:02

Working with someone like myself, a financial professional.

Jessica 44:05

Oh, was that hard for you to say? Self-promotion. He's not good at that. It's important. And and not everybody needs a financial advisor. We know that. But most people are not doing what they need to do on a comprehensive basis by themselves.

Brandon 44:24

See, I would say you said most people don't need a financial advisor. I would say most people do need to.

Jessica 44:29

Oh no, that's what I meant. Did I say that?

Brandon 44:31

I think I maybe I maybe I heard you incorrectly. I would say most people do need some help on this journey.

Jessica 44:38

That is what I agree.

Brandon 44:39

Obviously, depending on where you're at on the journey and what your you know actual finances look like as far as how much money I've coming in stuff with that, maybe it doesn't make sense to pay for that at that point in time. But I find it hard, like I I have yet to meet someone that could not benefit from working with an advisor. I've never met anybody. Yeah. Because even honestly, like I have the benefit of being an advisor and like, you know, being able just to have these conversations, you know, um, all the time with other advisors where I'll ask some questions about myself, myself, because two heads is often better than one.

Jessica 45:09

Right. Yeah. Well, and I think too, especially if you have those executive functioning challenges, then working with somebody that can help you get through the task list, help you complete the things that are going to move the needle, um, have more frequent check-ins with you, simplify what is stressing you out. You know, heck, you could schedule a session to open your mail together on the call with Brandon and like tackle what's in front.

Brandon 45:39

Also, it's having someone letting you know that it's okay that you have these hurdles overcome. Where I'm like, you know, if you know you have ADHD, hey, we know you have ADHD.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Yeah.

Brandon 45:52

Let's move past it. Now let's find like a working plan that helps you as the individual. Yeah. What do you need? And having somebody, you know, kind of lets you know that it's okay to be you in some aspects. It's okay to be you.

Jessica 46:06

Yeah.

Your One Week Action Plan

Jessica 46:07

So as you're listening, if this hit home and you're feeling seen, like A, you're not alone, and and so many people are not only struggling to navigate their finances just in general, but then if you have a brain that makes traditional advice feel completely out of reach, it is not your fault. So again, this you are not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. This is not your fault. Um, and and the financial industry in general was not built for neurodivergence. It just wasn't. Um, and the advice is is kind of blanketed. It's that one size fits all. And even though people say like personal finance is personal, there's not much out there to help people who are struggling because of ADHD or other neuro neurodivergence. So as you're listening and as we're we're wrapping up, you know, if this has hit you, here are just a couple of things you can write this down to do today or this week to help you get one step closer to being more organized. So automate at least one bill. Preferably where you live. Maybe you can do that. Automate a bill, your savings, anything like that. Automate it. Um set your first money day. Try to do it on a day that you can do consistently. Like maybe on Mondays you have less to do. I don't know. Pick a day where you have 15 minutes and the least amount of distractions, and you can sit down and really unpack what's in front of you monetarily. Um, delete at least one shopping app or multiple shopping apps. Um, and then unsubscribe from an email, which you know, if you have Gmail emails. Retail email, yeah. Uh if you have Gmail, you can actually very easy. Uh yeah, it'll tell you like unsubscribe and you just hit the button and then confirm and like boom, you're done. It takes three seconds.

Brandon 48:08

Although I feel like that there's one that I've like unsubscribed to like a thousand times and it's and it does not work.

Jessica 48:13

It's not working. I know, but just keep just keep trying. Um, and then write a financial goal down, maybe your your top one or two goals, and put it in a visible place. Put it on your coffee machine, put it on your mirror in your bathroom, put it, you know, on your rear rear view mirror in the car. That's probably not safe. In the corner?

Brandon 48:31

Not like I would say not safe.

Jessica 48:33

On the dashboard? Okay.

Brandon 48:34

Put it on the dashboard, maybe, not on the mirror. Somewhere where you're how big is your mirror?

Jessica 48:39

I mean, for a post-it note?

Brandon 48:40

Yours isn't your first of all, the mirror in your car is not that big.

Jessica 48:43

Okay. All right. Delete that. We're not putting post-it notes on our rear view mirror.

Brandon 48:49

That's insanity.

Jessica 48:50

You should see Brandon's face right now. But point is put a goal somewhere visible so you can see it, so you're motivated by it, and you can take small actions every single day to help you reach that goal. What do you want people to walk away with, babe?

Brandon 49:06

Honestly, I think like to the biggest thing that I want people to understand is like understanding who you are and not trying to create a plan for the person you want to be, necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Yep.

Brandon 49:17

Like understand who you are today, like not some version of that you wish you could be. Who are you today? What are the hurdles that you currently face? And let's plan for that. So if you have ADHD, we're not putting a plan in place for someone who doesn't have ADHD.

unknown 49:30

Right.

Brandon 49:31

We need to put a plan in place for your needs.

Jessica 49:33

For your needs, yeah.

Subscribe Share Review And Wrap

Jessica 49:35

Um, so hopefully this has been a helpful episode. You are not broken, you are not alone. If you have not yet hit subscribe on our podcast, please do that. That'll also take you half a second. Hit subscribe right now wherever you're listening. Share this episode with a friend or family member that you know needs it. And as always, um, if you have not yet left a rating or review, please do that for us. It helps get our podcast in front of other people if you need this information. And it's free 99. Yeah, you don't, it doesn't cost you anything except for a few seconds of your time. So um we hope that this has been a helpful conversation. We hope that you feel seen. We hope that you know that you are perfect just the way you are. You are not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. And um, you can do this. And if you need help and you need support and you need an accountability partner, reach out to Brandon, schedule your free consultation, and see if you're the right fit. And, you know, get support. There's nothing wrong with that.

unknown 50:38

No.

Jessica 50:38

All right. Um, thank you, friends, for listening, and we will talk to you next week. Don't forget, Benjamin Franklin said, an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid. Until next time.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Sugar Daddy Podcast go. Learn how to make the pockets grow. Fundamental freedoms where we grow.

Jessica 51:01

Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review, and share this episode with your friends, family, and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the Sugar Daddy Podcast. You can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our past the sugar segment at thesugardaddypodcast at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail to our Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 51:33

It's very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based upon your own personal circumstances. We should take independent money to advise reliance professional and executive or indefinitely research and verify any information you find in our pocket and we need to rely upon whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.